Enough Now...

  • Hi folks,

    I have posted about this several times and had numerous good answers... unfortunately... I am now bald and bleeding through ripping my hear out.

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  • @Glen85 I feel for you, I've almost been in that place myself! So how complex is the scene? can you post a preview window render and your FF render settings?


  • Hardly anything. I can't post the preview yet, as I don't have it loaded, just an empty scene while it renders, to help with the system overload.

    There's Annie, with Exnem's body hair etc, she is wearing a firefighter's helmet and cargo pants with braces, holding a firefighter's hose. The hose is producing a trickle of water, there's the Peterbilt fire truck, the ashes and embers from the camp fire in Merlin's oak scene and some flames. The Poser construct serves as a black raytrace 'catcher' or whatever, as reflections need something to reflect. two lights, one for the flame glow and one to illuminate Annie more. That's it, I think.

    I'm losing my mind with this. I've done the nurse one, I want to get this one done and then get the textures for the damned police car sorted so I can get that done. It is taking way too long to get these three pieces finished, it's a good job I don't try making a living from this, as I'd be skint and homeless!

  • I concur with amethystpendant, most of the problems you may have should be related to materials and render settings.
    Transparencies, reflections and refractions, may cause long rendering times, even the final dimension and resolution may impact render time.

    I understand how you feel, really, but at least you can use Poser... it's more than a month I'm trying to solve my library problems, and I'm still... in the middle of nowhere!

  • Yes, the thing is, I can't use Poser... I can't use my PC at all, as it's taking up 100% of the CPU, even though it IS set not to, so that isn't working. When I typed this, I checked a PM and got straight on to taking a screenshot of my render settings... I've just finished it. That's two screenshots and two croppings in Photoshop, over twenty minutes! That's how long simple things are taking here, it's not on!

    Anyway, here are my render settings. I've also included a crop of the raytrace preview for reference, as it was still there after my initial test. The first is the raw but rotated render, the second is edited to show how far the render has come... the greyscale areas aren't rendered (it is rotated 90 degrees clockwise).




    P.S. The only difference in render settings is exporting z depth. I also don't think I have mesh smoothing on, as it plays havoc with a lot of models, but I can't be sure without opening up the scene again, which will likely overload my system, so I want to avoid that, if at all possible.

  • Right, well, I've cancelled it again, I'm not having it. This is what I got from it all, haven't even rotated it. The chrome on the fire engine looks rubbish too, unfortunately, that's the EZMetals chrome, so I know it's a good material, probably just nothing for it in the scene is all. I did originally have a smoky atmosphere in here, but figured I'd try rendering without it, as it was taking an age... turns out it's not the atmosphere after all, so I might well put it back on.


  • @Glen85 here are my "quality" settings


    As a minimum I would change precalculation scale to 0.5, increase your Iradiance Cache to 50 in both

    You could also reduce the number of threads to say 7 (I know @bagginsbill I know!) but also just check in task manager once the render starts that FFRender.exe is running at below normal priority) Also Render in background

    If you are using EZMetals you will need something to refflect if you want the chrome to look good

    Just hints

  • I made bigger images and never, never more than 3 hours of rendering time, with reflections, refractions and so on.
    For the Bucket size, I use 32, mostly 2 bounces (rarely four), the rest is more or less the same.
    ...and my computer is rather old, now.

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    It sounds very much to me that you're completely out of memory and Poser (as well as anything else you're doing) is swapping to disk. This is not a problem of CPU utilization, but rather that your computer is operating in a really stupid way.

    I don't know why Microsoft ever made swapping on by default. Nobody wants a computer that starts doing everything 100 times slower. It's better to just die with an error message, "Out of memory".

    But I digress.

    If Poser is, indeed, using all of memory, there is not much that running in the background or render settings can do. The remedy is to get more RAM or reduce how much you need.

    Not having the scene in my hands, I can only give general suggestions how to reduce memory for a render:

    Smaller bucket size
    Fewer samples
    Fewer polygons in your geometry
    Smaller rendered image size
    Smaller texture files
    Don't use displacement

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    Note - next time it gets stupid slow, open Task Manager and have a look at how much memory is used by Poser, and by all your applications overall.

    If you have 4 GB of RAM and Poser uses 5 GB you might as well abandon the render - it won't finish in your lifetime.

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    Hi Glen85.

    I downloaded your render (and turned it)
    Question1 : Where are the lights? How many, what kind, and where are they? Because i see multiple shadows from different directions.
    Question2 : Any IBL in the scene? => Open backdoor, throw out. No LOL.
    Question3 : Any light or object has AO active? => Same backdoor. No LOL, as you have to check each and every light and each and every obj file .

    For question 2 and 3 use IDL and forget IBL and AO completely. They became obsolete when IDL was introduced.

    Question4 : The smoke is a plane with a texture and a transparency? And is there some Ambient or Translucence, or Refraction or Reflection involved?

    So, this might be what's going on.
    Not knowing what's in the scene and not knowing the multiple material setups?
    Using a combination of (old style) IBL, AO on lights and or objects, and IDL rendering is usually the cause of days long renders.

    Remark1 : MSR at 0.1? => That means 0.2 in reality (the default setting) unless?
    Unless you have set 0.1 in each and every vertex group. (The MSR setting at render time is per vertex group) and the MSR setting in the vertex groups has priority over the global render settings if higher. => PP11 SR8 Manual page 516.

    Remark2 : Pixel Samples at 6. Ok, but heavy-heavy.
    I use 3 for draft, 4 for quality, and 5 is my ultimate maximum. (Personally? I'v never used 6 or above, it's just overkill.)

    Remark3 : Metals; Chorme and copper are very sensitive to light settings. What brings us back to the start; The lights.

    Remark 4 : I hope there is a dome somewhere around the scene? => A dome to contain the lights rays and reduces render times.

    Tja, long render times come when combining IBL, AO, and IDL.
    In the past we used to "fake" IDL with IBL and AO settings, and all these have to be removed everywhere when rendering with IDL enabled.

    Again, I am writing "in the blind here", because I don't know what "setup" you have in the scene.

    Best regards, Tony

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    @Glen85 said in Enough Now...:

    That's two screenshots and two croppings in Photoshop, over twenty minutes!

    This is the statement that makes me think you're out of memory.

    I just noticed your shading rate is .1. This causes pretty big memory bloat as it will be doing micropolygons to the tune of 10 x 10 = 100 times the number of pixels in a bucket.

    I know it won't look good, but for the sake of evidence gathering, what happens if you set the shading rate to 10?

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    Hi BB, I would agree but there is only one figure and this is in the sub under the screengrabs:
    "I'm running Win 7 64bit 16GB RAM Intel Core i7 - 4770K 3.50GHz Nvidia GeForce GTX 660"

  • Yes, as vilters said, I think the problem is elsewhere... 16 GB of ram, as I too have, but I never ever had a problem like this with my old, now, computer.

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    Going by memory here so could be wrong but I thought that turning Irradiance Cache to 0 will switch it off & Firefly will use brute force computation? Which would be extremely slow ...

  • I'll have to read through everything at a later time, as I've had yet another meltdown and hurt my head really badly so I struggle to think straight. Times are bad right now and this issue is making things worse. I appreciate all all of the help from everyone and I will get back to you when I can. Thanks.

  • @caisson I believe so too but I was looking for some kind of confirmation of this but unfortunately it must have been on the RDNA forums that I read about it so now it's gone. I was hesitant to bring it up in this thread because it wouldn't be the first time I'd be wrong. :)

  • @kalypso Anyway i'd say that the best way to avoid strange behavior of the render engine in a first stage is to avoid inappropriate settings. Checking Irradiance Cache and putting it to zero is the first anomaly i would point to and that i would correct too :)

  • Hi Glen,
    Just my two pence worth, My computer hardware is almost the same as yours. If I try and render anything over 4K it starts taking forever. I notice on your D3D FF settings your rendering at 5313 x 3000 your dpi is set to 300, BB hit the nail on the head, bet you anything you like your pc is running out of memory and is swapping. I was over at the reality forums reading a thread about almost exactly the same situation as yours. The solution was either to get more memory or drop the resolution,.
    other things you can try is to go through hierarchy list and turn off everything not in sight of your render, it'll ease the burden on your system.
    Good luck.

  • Hi Glen

    Can you save scene and collect whole scene and upload this on Dropbox?

    I can render this scene for you if you are wish without the problem and if yes then please PM me

    Same settings I have used on my PC to render in FireFly and Poser and no issues although I don't render at such high resolutions usually 2560x1440 or 1920x1200, these are my two common used rendering resolutions

    Thanks, Jura