Enough Now...


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    @Glen85

    Hi Glen85.

    I downloaded your render (and turned it)
    Question1 : Where are the lights? How many, what kind, and where are they? Because i see multiple shadows from different directions.
    Question2 : Any IBL in the scene? => Open backdoor, throw out. No LOL.
    Question3 : Any light or object has AO active? => Same backdoor. No LOL, as you have to check each and every light and each and every obj file .

    For question 2 and 3 use IDL and forget IBL and AO completely. They became obsolete when IDL was introduced.

    Question4 : The smoke is a plane with a texture and a transparency? And is there some Ambient or Translucence, or Refraction or Reflection involved?

    So, this might be what's going on.
    Not knowing what's in the scene and not knowing the multiple material setups?
    Using a combination of (old style) IBL, AO on lights and or objects, and IDL rendering is usually the cause of days long renders.

    Remark1 : MSR at 0.1? => That means 0.2 in reality (the default setting) unless?
    Unless you have set 0.1 in each and every vertex group. (The MSR setting at render time is per vertex group) and the MSR setting in the vertex groups has priority over the global render settings if higher. => PP11 SR8 Manual page 516.

    Remark2 : Pixel Samples at 6. Ok, but heavy-heavy.
    I use 3 for draft, 4 for quality, and 5 is my ultimate maximum. (Personally? I'v never used 6 or above, it's just overkill.)

    Remark3 : Metals; Chorme and copper are very sensitive to light settings. What brings us back to the start; The lights.

    Remark 4 : I hope there is a dome somewhere around the scene? => A dome to contain the lights rays and reduces render times.

    Tja, long render times come when combining IBL, AO, and IDL.
    In the past we used to "fake" IDL with IBL and AO settings, and all these have to be removed everywhere when rendering with IDL enabled.

    Again, I am writing "in the blind here", because I don't know what "setup" you have in the scene.

    Best regards, Tony


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @Glen85 said in Enough Now...:

    That's two screenshots and two croppings in Photoshop, over twenty minutes!

    This is the statement that makes me think you're out of memory.

    I just noticed your shading rate is .1. This causes pretty big memory bloat as it will be doing micropolygons to the tune of 10 x 10 = 100 times the number of pixels in a bucket.

    I know it won't look good, but for the sake of evidence gathering, what happens if you set the shading rate to 10?


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @bagginsbill
    Hi BB, I would agree but there is only one figure and this is in the sub under the screengrabs:
    "I'm running Win 7 64bit 16GB RAM Intel Core i7 - 4770K 3.50GHz Nvidia GeForce GTX 660"



  • Yes, as vilters said, I think the problem is elsewhere... 16 GB of ram, as I too have, but I never ever had a problem like this with my old, now, computer.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Going by memory here so could be wrong but I thought that turning Irradiance Cache to 0 will switch it off & Firefly will use brute force computation? Which would be extremely slow ...



  • I'll have to read through everything at a later time, as I've had yet another meltdown and hurt my head really badly so I struggle to think straight. Times are bad right now and this issue is making things worse. I appreciate all all of the help from everyone and I will get back to you when I can. Thanks.



  • @caisson I believe so too but I was looking for some kind of confirmation of this but unfortunately it must have been on the RDNA forums that I read about it so now it's gone. I was hesitant to bring it up in this thread because it wouldn't be the first time I'd be wrong. :)



  • @kalypso Anyway i'd say that the best way to avoid strange behavior of the render engine in a first stage is to avoid inappropriate settings. Checking Irradiance Cache and putting it to zero is the first anomaly i would point to and that i would correct too :)



  • Hi Glen,
    Just my two pence worth, My computer hardware is almost the same as yours. If I try and render anything over 4K it starts taking forever. I notice on your D3D FF settings your rendering at 5313 x 3000 your dpi is set to 300, BB hit the nail on the head, bet you anything you like your pc is running out of memory and is swapping. I was over at the reality forums reading a thread about almost exactly the same situation as yours. The solution was either to get more memory or drop the resolution,.
    other things you can try is to go through hierarchy list and turn off everything not in sight of your render, it'll ease the burden on your system.
    Good luck.



  • Hi Glen

    Can you save scene and collect whole scene and upload this on Dropbox?

    I can render this scene for you if you are wish without the problem and if yes then please PM me

    Same settings I have used on my PC to render in FireFly and Poser and no issues although I don't render at such high resolutions usually 2560x1440 or 1920x1200, these are my two common used rendering resolutions

    Thanks, Jura



  • Thank you to everyone. I haven't been well enough to go through everything until today, things really got on top of me but I'm a bit better today.

    I've had a go at changing the render settings and am trying out Annie's bedroom, which has numerous point lights, IDL emitters, EZMetals and a mirror as well, I'm thinking it'll be a good scene to use for this. It has a fair amount of stuff going on.

    I've changed the settings, here they are now:

    0_1517141296217_picture049.jpg

    I'm still getting nastiness happening. Can anyone advise, please? I must say, I didn't understand a lot of what was posted, not really.

    I did try a half-sized render but it still misbehaved for me. I would have thought my memory was enough, though I would like an upgrade... it's just a matter of money and priorities right now, as my car is falling apart, for a start off.

    Jura, thank you very much! We shall see how we get on here, as it's occurring in numerous projects, not just the firefighter one, but if I need you, I'll give you a shout, that's really good of you, thank you!


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Irradiance Cache to 50.

    Samples to 200.

    Minimum shading rate to 0.2.

    Render at a smaller size & see what the speed/quality balance is like.

    PS. I would suggest using the standard Render Settings dialog; personally I find it easier to understand, there are tooltips for every setting, & the D3D dialog you're using only has a few settings that aren't in the standard one.



  • @caisson said in Enough Now...:

    Irradiance Cache to 50.

    Samples to 200.

    Minimum shading rate to 0.2.

    Render at a smaller size & see what the speed/quality balance is like.

    PS. I would suggest using the standard Render Settings dialog; personally I find it easier to understand, there are tooltips for every setting, & the D3D dialog you're using only has a few settings that aren't in the standard one.

    I would add remove Subsurface scattering since it appears you don't have any materials using subsurface scattering (in red)

    And change DPI to 72 as standard scale (72 pixels = 1 inch), you'll scale it later if really needed



  • Render currently ongoing with these settings, as suggested by Jura11 quite a while ago (on Rendo, I believe) and my CPU and RAM are both maxed out... everything is lagging, even the text I'm typing right now.

    0_1517146812824_picture050.jpg



  • Result of above settings:

    0_1517147671363_001.png



  • Rendering again with recommended settings, the only thing I didn't change was the render scale, as I will want to render at that scale anyway, so having it work at a smaller scale is pointless.

    CPU is maxed, RAM is maxed. Lagging like hell.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    If the RAM is maxed out?
    If RAM is maxed out completely the render will never finish.
    The only option left is to reduce the bucket size.
    Try 32 or 16 as bucket size and check what RAM it takes.



  • Fluctuating... this is about as low as it gets, hits the top on everything when beginning another pass.

    0_1517148962092_picture051.jpg



  • Bucket size down to four and... same performance, it just takes a crap ton longer!

    I'm tempted to call it quits with 3D art, I can't cope. I'm not enjoying it like I used to... like I should do. All I'm getting is stress and my artwork goes largely ignored wherever I publish it. The prints I have in my flat, people cuss them whenever they come round, I dunno why I bother with any of it. The only reason I ever bothered was because I enjoyed doing it, but I don't anymore! I used to set a render going, maybe go out for a drive or something and have a really special feeling in me, excited about how it would turn out... now I dread it! I dread even thinking of a project and getting a bug to start it, because I know it'll take days or even weeks to render, and my PC will be entirely useless in that time!

    I'm suffering terribly, my mental health is in tatters, I live entirely alone and never see anyone, my social life doesn't exist because nobody bothers, and the only thing I enjoy doing besides being asleep is causing me more grief than ever.



  • Your render settings are overkill.

    Here are my default settings that give fast IDL renders with acceptable quality. For high quality renders you have to increase 'Samples=200' and 'Irradiance Cache=20'.

    0_1517159979284_RenderDefaults.jpg