Enough Now...

  • My scenes usually have almost the same size as OP, 5000 x 3000 300dpi, probably a little bit more complicated, but everything is made by me, objects and shaders.
    Render time is under 15 minutes and memory has never raised over 9 GB, Poser and FFrender (I always use separate process).

  • @nagra_00_ @fonpaolo That is why I suspect problems with FF shaders as in EZMetal and others that are too complex and use Hi quality settings when not needed.

  • Shaders are a problem, but even objects can give troubles.
    I tend to use as less images in materials as I can, using almost only Mat Room's nodes.
    I concur with you, ghostship, EZMetal nodes are way too complex, and thanks to bagginsbill suggestions, collected over the years, almost all my shaders are composed by only one or two nodes.
    Even in a large picture, it's very difficult to understand if a shader has a lower quality or not...

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    I always found blurred reflections (anything with a Reflect node where softness was not 0) to be a huge speed killer in Firefly - I have a vague memory from some years ago of cancelling a render of a single figure at 800x600 pixels after 4 hours, still incomplete. One of the big reasons I prefer Superfly to Firefly.

  • I know this might sound weird, but you don't have the ray trace preview window with auto refresh selected do you? That really wipes out my 8 cores, and there does not seem to be anyway to stop it until it has finished, even if you close the window it still eats CPU like mad!

  • @amethystpendant open your Render Settings, select the Preview renderer tab and save the render settings, then click refresh on the Raytrace Preview window and it will (or should) immediately cancel any current raytracing and render with the selected Preview renderer (SreeD or OpenGL) which can't raytrace, so should complete quickly. Then go back and reset your preferred render engine in the Render Settings.

  • @anomalaus Thank you!

  • @nagra_00_ said in Enough Now...:

    Out of curiosity i made a big FireFly render at 8000x5000@300dpi

    Scene was a bedroom from 3DC with IDL.

    Max memory used by Poser 5.26GB, render time 25 minutes. On my old MacMini i7 quad core.


    I haven't tried turning off IDL, as I've used it constantly since it was first launched in Poser (whichever number it was... might have even been this one, mind's a blank). I'll give it a go, thanks.

    I haven't found the option to prioritise the apps like that, only what BB and others have suggested in the past, which is what I am doing.

    I'm thinking a memory upgrade might be on the cards, as well as a render-engine upgrade... might be asking about the latter.

  • Well, I totally missed the last page here... my apologies!

    I always thought EZMetals were 'good' shaders and use them loads in almost every scene, from replacing the sphere maps on the eyes of a pair of boots, or one of Sasha's many piercings, to making large areas of chrome or aluminium... the mat room confuzzles the bejoogles out of me, but I figured that was because I'm a bit thick. I suppose they can hog resources, depending on what external features they are dealing with, such as reflections etc. It's one thing which is constant between these two scenes, the EZMetals are present on the fire appliance and on Annie's gymnastics awards in her room... might hide those and try again, see how we go. Main focus is on EZMetals now.

    I don't have the RT preview on auto-refresh, no, because I'm always milling about and it does my head in. I have it constantly open and docked to the right hand side of my screen, but always choose to manually refresh it.

    I suppose it might be the whole 'autism thing', but I could never get on with Poser 11, as the icons were different, some of the layout was different and it all just really jarred me. I'm quite upset that I can't settle into using it, as it's such a waste to just have it sit there and times are hard enough as it is, without wastage like that. I suppose I could try loading a scene up in that and at least trying to render at the same settings in there or something, to check and see if it's the install.

    Aside from that, like I said, I might be looking into another render engine, as it would hopefully be far less of a 'learning curve' or 'drastic, horrible, confusing, scary change' than switching to new software. I've gotten really bad with change in general over the last eight years or so, and this is just one aspect of my life where it is most obvious.

  • @Glen85 ??? Superfly IS a new render engine. With the confusion you are having with FireFly why for the love of god would you move to another render engine when Superfly uses the same interface and same shaders????

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    PS1; 16GB RAM should be more then enough, and while some metal shaders can be pretty heavy, a lag like yours is probably something else that requires looking into.

    PS2; Poser has 4 different render engines.

    • "Preview" is a render engine
    • FireFly is a render engine
    • FireFly Raytrace is a render engine
    • SuperFly is a render engine

    Yet another render engine will probably not solve anything.

    PS3 : You are correct by keeping IDL enabled.

    Sitemail answered. Best regards, Tony

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    If you have win7 then chances are windows has 8gb of that 16gb held in reserve - for who knows what. Even on 64-bit premium. So really you only have 8gb usable by applications. I haven't figured out how to force it to release any of the other 8gb after spending days reading every forum i could find on the issue.

  • @ghostship

    Because it is a new interface... it's all different, like I said, it's confusing to look at, the library is horrible and I am jarred by it all.

    Thanks, all... I hope it works out, somehow. :/

  • @AmbientShade I don't know how a system could reserve half of the ram for whatever it wants, without allowing the user to change this.
    Maybe it's related to something known as pagefile...

    As a side note I'm using Win7 Pro 64 bit.

  • You said that you don't like the change in icons. In previous version of poser, they could be changed. I'm not on my poser computer to check things out, but poser 11 may be the same. I remember there were some psd files somewhere. Maybe someone else can help find them.
    The layout in poser 11 is customizable. You can probably set it up like you have it in your current version.

  • @Glen85 & @redphantom on macOS, the UI psd files which define the icons are in /Applications/Poser 11/Runtime/ui. In Windows 10, they're in C:\Program Files\Smith Micro\Poser 11\Runtime\ui (or whichever drive you've installed your Poser 11 application on).

  • Hi Glen85
    I am a bit late to the party but would just like to add a few things.
    You mentioned you were running a RAM optimiser try killing it and see if there's a difference.
    From my experience they don't really work because they are just another type of virtual memory which uses disk caching. And if your system is already disk caching from the OS then the system is doing double disk operations.

    Also just making sure you don't have anything else but Poser loaded since on your shot of the task manager I couldn't see what apps or processes were running.

    The suggestion to reduce the number of cores assigned to Poser is a good one as it will allow other system services to run.

    Lastly if you have never heard of it or used it you may want to give the combination of POVRay and Poseray a try I. Before Superfly it was my go to for photoreal output. It rendered faster, looked better, and didn't bog my machine down.

    Good Luck and take care of your head.

  • @jimbobaggins said in Enough Now...:

    POVRay and Poseray

    That sounds interesting, can you tell me more, please?
    The RAM tool I have only runs when I tell it to and it's one which clears unused data from the memory to free space. Even without it running, it bogs down. I haven't had lagging issues when I've just left it to do nothing but the render, but that's obviously because I haven't done anything else with it... it's the 'tree falling in the forest' scenario... if I'm not doing anything else with it, is it lagging? Well, seeing as I can leave it for three days and damn near go insane from boredom, and it still hadn't completed, I would say it is. It's taking far, far too long to render certain scenes.

    In response to the Poser 11 layout, the main issue for me was the library... I absolutely hated it with a passion... if I'm ever to use it again, I will create scenes in 2014 and import them, so I don't have to use that horrible, horrible library, lol!

  • Since I've read this thread I've done a few checks using resource monitor while rendering. On a recent scene my cpu (14 core i9, 28 threads) has been running at 122% (over 100% due to turbo boost) and physical memory has been at about 60% of 32GB. However even while this was happening I could still use windows explorer and photo viewer at the same time with no problems, and of course resource monitor itself was still running. This was using firefly.
    Incidentally, running superfly on a cpu render the cpu's only run at 112%, I thought this might have been a temperature effect, with build up of temperature after the firefly render but when I reverted to firefly after the superfly render the cpu went back to 122%.
    However I did find problems after the superfly render of the firefly render not working properly, with windows randomly closing etc. I closed poser and restarted with the same result, and had to reboot the machine . Once I did this everything ran smoothly again.
    I'm using windows 10
    I don't know if any of this info helps, but would suspect that the problems with not being able to use pc while rendering are attributable to windows 7 and it's settings.

  • Poser Ambassadors

    I'm going to say it again. Assuming you've set the executable (any renderer) to run at "belownormal" priority, holding back on number of threads will not improve responsiveness, and WILL make the render take longer.

    If the responsiveness is horrible, even when belownormal is in effect, it is because your CPU is waiting for disk IO due to not having enough space to hold everything in RAM. It is swapping. Constantly swapping is called "thrashing" and the #1 symptom of thrashing is that everything and anything takes forever compared to normal.

    It is easy to tell if you're thrashing using Task Manager. Look at memory to see if nearly all of it is in use, i.e. over 90%. Then look at disk I/O and see if it's also over 90%. When both are over 90% you are almost certainly thrashing. There are other situations in which thrashing is happening <%90, but the final nail in the coffin is if your CPU is well below 50% utilization. When

    Memory is high
    Disk IO is high
    CPU is low

    Then you should be getting more RAM.

    Thrashing can also still use high CPU, but if CPU is low, there is no doubt. Most Windows computers use DMA (direct memory access) and when performing disk IO, the CPU is not involved, resulting in a symptom of low CPU utilization despite there being lots of work to do.

    And, yes, if you're thrashing, Task Manager is almost impossible to use as well. If you can't pop Task Manager up in less than 1 second, buy more RAM.