Enough Now...


  • Poser Ambassadors

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrashing_(computer_science)

    "If a process does not have access to a sufficient number of memory pages, a futile, repetitive swapping condition known as "thrashing" often arises, and the page fault rate typically becomes high."


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Took some time to get my system thrashing (hard to do).

    Here's what it looks like:

    0_1517596928595_987d5827-4358-4e8d-b2b2-e552c2414e37-image.png

    See how CPU keeps dropping below 100% (sometimes well below) and at the same time Disk is jumping to 99%, and memory is pegged at 99%? That is thrashing.

    It started happening consistently on my 16 GB machine when I configured the rendering settings to cause around 12 GB for Poser.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Here is a more severe CPU dip in the middle. At that moment, Poser was just over 16 GB.

    0_1517597181793_abbf1c13-cb21-4bc9-af91-c8b764ad51fc-image.png

    Shortly after, Poser gave back some memory and CPU shot back to 100%.It is still swapping but no longer thrashing.

    However, memory is building back up - I'm watching it and it dropped to 12 GB and is already back to 14.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    I stopped the render -- CPU dropped to 5-7%, Memory 53%, Disk near 0%.

    0_1517597387799_9e462d53-0011-4ff3-9070-c58180b48012-image.png


  • Poser Ambassadors

    The previous render, intentionally using render settings designed to cause thrashing, was still not even partly done after 11 minutes. I killed it, changed my settings to something reasonable, and here are the stats during the whole render, which took only 24 seconds.

    0_1517597550204_6b89de27-fd39-426f-b36e-c67871ddd95e-image.png

    The initial blip of the disk was reading textures, then NO DISK IO until the end, where the image was saved, just when CPU went to 0.

    Remember, high CPU (100%) means good rendering is happening. Anything below 100% plus massive 100% disk IO means horrible stuff is taking place. Stuff that isn't making your render make progress.

    The word used in the wiki article on thrashing was "futile".



  • Thank you for the responses, bagginsbill.

    Following your instructions to make the Poser exe run below normal is easy, but how is that done with the render engine? Your instructions are to alter the shortcut for Poser, but seeing as the render engine is booted up from within Poser, how does one alter this to run below normal? I've tried to do it in the task manager but, as it has to be running at the time, it does not allow me to alter its state.

    To clarify, again, for anyone who doesn't want to trawl through posts, Poser hardly ever hogs my resources at all, it's Firefly I'm having problems with.

    Also, I thought my RAM was cleared by someone here as being plenty for what I'm doing, but I understand that it all depends on multiple other factors.

    I know I can get a RAM upgrade and I do want this at some point, but money is a huge factor for me right now, so I obviously want to rule literally everything out completely before doing that, as this is the one and only thing I'm having issues with like this, so if it really is a case of upgrading, this is the only thing I will do it for (gaming etc gives me no problems, ever, and I always run at top settings on my games). Games like Crysis and the DiRT/Grid franchises run like silk at their highest settings. I occasionally get frame rate drops on Railworks, but that's usually something to do with the mods, as it never happens when using default maps and rolling stock. By the way, I normally play all these games while running Spotify in the background for music.



  • Hi Glen

    Can you take picture of the inside of yours PC if you have there free slots for RAM, if yes then this will be very easy to upgrade, I have spare DDR3 RAM which I think are 1333MHz or 1600MHz and which are 3GB each, think I have two sticks or three sticks

    These are from my old X58 and should work, have run these RAM with 4GB sticks for while on X5670

    Good or at least better cooler would help as well,just you can OC CPU and this would help with faster rendering as well, done in past test and OC on CPU always lowers render speed

    Wish I have spare cooler which I would give you

    Regarding the using EZMetal materials, have used for while these materials in my FireFly renders and used as well BB materials which I think he created for DreamLand models and never saw any high RAM usage, some older materials which are using Sphere map this can put too much stress on RAM and you can see high RAM usage,last time what I done render with FireFly and used older scene and saw 64GB usage in this scene, that's without any figures in scene and found vendor used almost on every metal material Sphere map

    Hope this helps

    Thanks, Jura



  • @Glen85 Hi
    Povray is called "Persistence of Vision Raytracer and is Open Source renderer that has been around for a while latest iteration is 3.7 and can be found at povray.org.

    PoseRay is a sort of GUI for PovRay that loads both the pz3 file and an obj version of your scene and then feeds that into PovRay for rendering.

    All lights and cameras brought in from the Poser file are still able to be positioned, but the actual models cannot be changed in anyway.

    It has a lot under the hood but initially it can be as simple as 1)install both 2) tell PoseRay where PovRay lives 3) give it a .pz3 file plus the ,obj of that scene you have exported and then tell it to render.

    It is not as user friendly as the poser interface but also not as confusing as say Blender or 3DMax for a first time user.

    PovRay is from povray.org
    PoseRay is from https://sites.google.com/view/poseray



  • Old time Un*x rule of thumb used to be allocate disk swap space equal or greater than twice physical RAM. With modern PCs and Macs well capable of housing and using 32GB RAM and more, the concept that you might need to reserve 64GB of your OS Boot SSD (should you be fortunate enough to have one), when it may be only 250GB itself and typically stores all the applications that you frequently use and haven't manually relocated or installed elsewhere, is rather staggering!

    I can guarantee that I will see thrashing (even if I can't obviously hear it on the SSD), if I let the free space on that drive get below half of my RAM (32GB) and try to run a big Poser SF render while I try to do other things in Firefox, with hundreds of tabs open (so sue me X-P). Not to mention that Firefox Quantum is itself prone to thrash on certain misbehaving, memory hungry web pages.

    Unfortunately, my mid-2011 27" iMac is at it's maximum unofficial RAM capacity of 32GB, so no options there. Probably going to try a 1TB SSD, or 512GB, if I can't scrape together enough broken bricks.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @Glen85 said in Enough Now...:

    Your instructions are to alter the shortcut for Poser, but seeing as the render engine is booted up from within Poser, how does one alter this to run below normal?

    You already did by making Poser run below normal. Anything it launches (such as FFRender64) is also run at the same priority.

    You can confirm this in task manager. It's already at the correct setting:

    0_1517658762763_eb0014d8-3f69-445e-bf05-d7c9ccdf264b-image.png

    If you've already set the priority on Poser, the sluggishness during a render is no longer about the process priority - you already fixed that. It's something else.



  • @bagginsbill Just out of interest, I run Poser (11) from it's default icon which runs at normal priority, however FFRender when doing background or local queue runs at below normal. I wonder if SM made that the default now. I prefer having it this way so that poser has a higher priority to FFRender so I can get on with my next scene whilst still rendering.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @amethystpendant said in Enough Now...:

    @bagginsbill Just out of interest, I run Poser (11) from it's default icon which runs at normal priority, however FFRender when doing background or local queue runs at below normal. I wonder if SM made that the default now. I prefer having it this way so that poser has a higher priority to FFRender so I can get on with my next scene whilst still rendering.

    Ha! You're right. This is new behavior. FINALLY. I've been telling them this should be an option (which it apparently isn't) but this is better than nothing.

    To confirm, I launched Poser.exe Above Normal, verified it was running that way, then started a background render. The FFRender64 executable was Below Normal.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Tested main-app render and it doesn't switch on its own - pity, it really should switch temporarily to a lower priority while rendering.