Why is it so hard to Select in the Pose Room



  • @ElZagna
    The mode of selection in Poser is both a blessing (for animation) and a curse (for stills). With enough experience, figuring out the sweet spot becomes second nature. For animation, being able to select a body part through another one is a blessing from above!

    It might not be all that interesting for still artists concerned with posing a character for 1 or 2 frames, but when you have 600 key poses per 1 min. of animation, with several characters in the scene, being able to move a body part through another one saves hundreds of clicks from having to re-position the camera. And even if we wouldn't be cheap with the click, there is something to be said about animating from the camera's view... kinda like in 2D.

    Who ever designed Poser's selection method must have been an animator ;]

    Wouldn't trade Poser for anything in the world just for this one feature!


  • Poser Ambassadors

    I bet krios is right. I never animate and, as a result, have frequently encountered motivations I consider unfounded, simply because I'm not the target user.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Since both methods are actually implemented (i.e. we see the other in the mat room) I really feel like this should be an option the user can decide.



  • @bagginsbill
    A way to switch the selection mode would be nice, because sometimes it does become cumbersome to select small body parts like finger bones, and there are 30 of them per character. At least it's not too difficult to turn off body parts behind the ones that are being worked on to make selecting easier.



  • @bagginsbill said in Why is it so hard to Select in the Pose Room:

    ...so they came up with this idea of using the closest (in 2D) centroid of an object.

    What do you mean by this?
    Is this why it's possible to highlight and select a body part even if we don't click on it but kinda click next to it?
    Is there an invisible "selection box" or area around the body parts?



  • @krios said in Why is it so hard to Select in the Pose Room:

    With enough experience, figuring out the sweet spot becomes second nature.

    Hmmm...I've been doing this since P8, and it ain't second nature to me yet.

    I see your point about animations being different than stills, nevertheless, this seems to be another of Poser's poor usability decisions. I don't know what percent of Poser's user base does animations, but my guess is that it's a tiny fraction. I would think that any developer would design their tools to meet the needs of the majority of users unless there is a compelling reason to do otherwise.

    If it were left up to me, I would allow the user to set the select style in the Preferences.

    PS, I see BB is saying much the same about user preferences.



  • @ElZagna said in Why is it so hard to Select in the Pose Room:

    Hmmm...I've been doing this since P8, and it ain't second nature to me yet.

    Unlike other 3D tools, in Poser you can select an object without having to click on it. Not exactly sure what the logic of it is, but Bill might have hinted to it with that "centroid of an object" thing. What you need to do is get a feel for where the invisible selection is for an object, and once you can wrap your mind around it, it'll become second nature. For example, to select the forearm, you click in the red circle's vicinity:

    0_1516902361316_click.jpg

    And it really is a no brainier to know where that invisible spot is once you understand this concept... and/or you have a feel for it.

    For now it's a hit & miss, but there has to be some kind of logic to it, and once we figure that out, it will not be second nature, but a simple modus operandi.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Now you got me trying to deduce exactly the logic of it.

    I mentioned nearest centroid. That was a guess with no evidence. I just did enough experimenting to prove that isn't it. Having said that, I don't know what it is but I am super curious now.

    I see some evidence that the selection is calculated with respect to a bounding rectangle that contains the actor with some margin but I don't quite have it yet.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Just discovered that there are situations where the hover (before you click) that highlights what you WILL select if you DO click doesn't always activate!!

    I'm hovering near a prop (not ON it) and there's zero indication that it will select that prop. Upon clicking, it does select it.



  • @bagginsbill if you switch to box tracking you can directly select the body part.



  • @bagginsbill fast tracking works as well.



  • @bagginsbill mmm maybe not...



  • Most of the time, I just select the body part from the drop down list. I actually do select it by clicking on the body part from time to time, but the drop down list is faster and more accurate for me.



  • I very rarely get what I want selected just by hovering over it, and even though it takes more steps, I use the Hierarchy Editor to find what I want, as it's definitely more accurate, especially when I'm working on finger joints to improve a hand's pose.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    I think the OP demonstrated awareness of all these other alternatives.

    The point is - those are more work than point and click, and really there's no justification for it.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Oh, dear, I must be tired as hell. :-)



  • @bagginsbill Oh I understand, it's just what I've gotten used to, and though it make take longer, I find it less frustrating.



  • @ghostship said in Why is it so hard to Select in the Pose Room:

    @bagginsbill fast tracking works as well.

    You cracked it ghostship! It's the fast tracking boxes that influence the selection.
    The highlight and selection upon click is about 10-15 pixels away from the edge of the box regardless of which tracking mode we're in.

    0_1516937590502_boxed.jpg

    The boxes influence eachother's selectability but Poser is smart enough to select the head of a character based on the same rule as selecting the hair which overlaps the head. Same thing is true for selecting the eyes within the 'box' of head.

    But the most precise selection is smack in the middle of the body part! Not based on the center of the geometry, but the center of the object as seen from the camera's POV.

    Pro tip: highlight the body part you wanna select, aim for the middle of it and click with confidence!

    Happy selecting!



  • @ElZagna said in Why is it so hard to Select in the Pose Room:

    ... There must be a reason for this, but for the life of me, I can't guess what it is.

    At least one simple reason: if a character's body parts are covered by clothing, and the body part needs to be selected, a well placed click is much faster then selecting the body part from the hierarchy window, or worst still, having to turn off the clothing to select the body part.



  • @krios said in Why is it so hard to Select in the Pose Room:

    At least one simple reason: if a character's body parts are covered by clothing, and the body part needs to be selected, a well placed click is much faster then selecting the body part from the hierarchy window, or worst still, having to turn off the clothing to select the body part.

    Or just right click and choose from the pop-up menu.

    So regardless of the thinking behind the developers' decision to do it the way they did, and regardless of the alternative methods of selecting an object, the consensus seems to be that the Material Room eye dropper approach - see it, click it, done - is the preferred approach with perhaps an option setting in Preferences for animators. Is anyone from SM watching this?