Poser 11 crashes when you GOZ props to Zbrush.


  • Banned

    Poser 11 crashes a lot when you export props to Zbrush via GOZ. It seems to happen most with props that are attached to something. The bug happens every time if it doesn't like the prop. However, some props won't cause Poser 11 to crash when gozing them to Zbrush.

    If the Poser team wants to reproduce this bug, just get your hands on random prop/environment scenes where say a house is attached to terrain or a prop is attached to a figure. Then goz the prop to Zbrush and Poser 11 will crash.

    This bug is confirmed. Anyone should be able to reproduce with total ease.

    Now let's say you attach a box primitive to Andy and GOZ the box, it won't crash. You have to actually have a scene that people ACTUALLY use in commercial renders. You can't just do a quick smoke test and assume it works. You need to open up actual projects from people who use the software heavily to do all your GOZ testing.

    How to test Zbrush GOZ.

    1. Get V4 into your scene.
    2. Attach 20 different props to various parts of V4.
    3. Goz every prop to Zbrush and check to see if Poser 11 crashes.

    Eventually you should find what causes the crash

    This bug has been in Poser since Poser Pro 2014.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Parenting is what causes the crash from what I've found out. Unparent and it works.


  • Banned

    @Ghostman said in Poser 11 crashes when you GOZ props to Zbrush.:

    Parenting is what causes the crash from what I've found out. Unparent and it works.

    The problem with unparenting is that in some cases it causes the prop to change world position which interferes my ability to sculpt around the prop accurately in Zbrush.

    The current work around I have right now is this (annoying):

    1. Duplicate the prop.
    2. Unparent the duplicate.
    3. When I unparent, the prop shifts location (due to some kind of scripting).
    4. Manually move the duplicated, unparented prop back into the original position of the original prop.
    5. Use the duplicate unparented prop to export to GOZ for use with sculpting.

    This workflow is extremely annoying and tedious.

    I really hope they just fix the problem this week and release a hot fix.

    @shvrdavid said in Poser 11 crashes when you GOZ props to Zbrush.:

    So your going from basically assuming that nothing gets tested, too releasing basically untested fixes....

    Epic....

    I specifically said smoke test. I didn't say you guys released it without testing.

    Chances are your deadline prevented you from thoroughly testing GOZ + Poser, so it took you years to get it to it's current beta state. My argument is that if you want to fix this problem you need to test as if you're using GOZ as a major part of your project. Without that level of testing, these problems will get through.

    The people who make heavy use of GOZ & Zbrush are working with V4 & a genital prop (vagina/anus). I would strongly advise you to test GOZ in this type of scenario. The good news is that most of the GOZ problems have been fixed and that is appreciated.

    This is the last issue. I make HEAVY use of GOZ & Zbrush and so far it seems this is the only problem that's left to fix. In a way you've done a great job, this is just the last issue.

    @shvrdavid said in Poser 11 crashes when you GOZ props to Zbrush.:

    So your going from basically assuming that nothing gets tested, too releasing basically untested fixes....

    Epic....

    @shvrdavid said in Poser 11 crashes when you GOZ props to Zbrush.:

    So your going from basically assuming that nothing gets tested, too releasing basically untested fixes....

    Epic....

    I specifically said smoke test. I didn't say you guys released it without testing.

    Chances are your deadline prevented you from thoroughly testing GOZ + Poser, so it took you years to get it to it's current beta state. My argument is that if you want to fix this problem you need to test as if you're using GOZ as a major part of your project. Without that level of testing, these problems will get through.

    The people who make heavy use of GOZ & Zbrush are working with V4 & a genital prop (vagina/anus). I would strongly advise you to test GOZ in this type of scenario. The good news is that most of the GOZ problems have been fixed and that is appreciated.

    This is the last issue. I make HEAVY use of GOZ & Zbrush and so far it seems this is the only problem that's left to fix. In a way you've done a great job, this is just the last issue.



  • So your going from basically assuming that nothing gets tested, too releasing basically untested fixes....

    Epic....



  • @trepleen said in Poser 11 crashes when you GOZ props to Zbrush.:

    The people who make heavy use of GOZ & Zbrush are working with V4 & a genital prop (vagina/anus).

    I make heavy use of GoZ and ZBrush and have never worked with V4 and a genital prop. I guess I'm not one of "the people." ;-)



  • @trepleen I would strongly advise you to test GOZ in this type of scenario.

    I would strongly suggest you keep in mind that this is a pg rated Poser site.

    Submit a ticket with the offending prop and we will look into it.


  • Banned

    @shvrdavid said in Poser 11 crashes when you GOZ props to Zbrush.:

    @trepleen I would strongly advise you to test GOZ in this type of scenario.

    I would strongly suggest you keep in mind that this is a pg rated Poser site.

    Submit a ticket with the offending prop and we will look into it.

    You can reproduce the bug with the following assets:

    Modern Home 1 - https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/?ViewProduct=102255

    Choose the terrain prop and click Object ----> Export Object Mesh To GOZ ... This will cause Poser 11 to crash.

    The Terrain prop has a bunch of assets parented to it. If you try to export it with all the props attached to the terrain, it causes Poser 11 to crash. If I unparent all the props from the terrain then it works. The problem with unparenting is it doesn't work in all sitautions. There are some assets that will shift world position when you unparent and that disrupts the Zbrush workflow.

    I can begin making a list of all assets that cause a crash, but chances are if you fix the problem using the above asset you'll automatically fix the issue with other props.

    I use GOZ so much and as of Poser 11 with the latest update, I think this is the ONLY bug that's left with GOZ. Everything else works perfectly.



  • From what you just said, the props that shift don't load where they end up once un-parented.

    Adding a fix for props that do that may not be the best option, but we will see.



  • @trepleen

    Have you tried exporting each of the child props with GoZ as posed and appending them together in ZBrush?



  • I'm not sure that this is a bug, as much as it is a workflow issue. You're dealing with separate objects here, and if you export children with the parent prop you're effectively trying to combine several objects together, and the bridge doesn't know what to do, or how to combine separate objects into one. No can do.

    Take the terrain with child props for example. When you export the terrain to ZBrush, and you are prompted to select the item to send to ZBrush, uncheck EVERYTHING but the terrain. Make sure you check the option to export it as POSED. That will export the terrain alone, in the "correct" place.

    Now, go back to Poser. Next you want to export one of the child props. Uncheck everything but the child prop you want to export. GoZ that to ZBrush. Export that prop as Posed also. Then "append" the child prop to the terrain in ZBrush and it should show up in the right place. The Terrain and the prop will be separate "tools" in ZBrush that you can morph independently from each other. But because they are appended into one tool, you can see how they relate to each other.

    Continue on in this manner until you export everything you need to morph to ZBrush. Morph one object at a time, and then GoZ them back to Poser. Poser should keep track of which object you are exporting back, and apply the morph to the correct prop.

    As far as your initial example, it's the same type of situation. First export your figure using Figure > Export Figure Mesh to GoZ. When you choose the figure to export, UNCHECK the prop that is attached, because it is a separate object. Export the figure as POSED.

    Now to back to Poser again, and choose Object > Export Object Mesh to GoZ. Uncheck everything except the prop you want to morph. Export THAT as posed also.

    In ZBrush, append the figure to the prop. You will be able to morph each independantly. Then select the item you want to send back to Poser ... when you export the figure, it will ask if you want to apply it as a full body morph to the character. When you export the prop, it will ask if you want to apply it as a morph to the prop.



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  • Banned

    @shvrdavid said in Poser 11 crashes when you GOZ props to Zbrush.:

    From what you just said, the props that shift don't load where they end up once un-parented.

    Adding a fix for props that do that may not be the best option, but we will see.

    Wait wait. When a prop shifts world position after unparenting that is most likely a result of a script needed for the props functionality. That is intended behavior. There's no need to fix that or mess with that. My point is that having to unparent a prop before GOZing to avoid Poser 11 crashing shouldn't be something I have to do.

    What needs to be fixed is when you export a prop that is attached to something or has attachments Poser will crash. Some props cause the crash and some don't. This doesn't happen with all props. I would say about 50% of props that are attached or have attachments will cause Poser to crash when you GOZ the object.

    One easy fix solution could be to have an option I check like this: "Export prop and ignore parent/child attachments". That way the prop can stay attached or keep it's attachment(s) but be GOZ'ed to Zbrush as if it has no attachments or isn't parented to anything. This could be the quickest and most effective way to solve the problem with minimum coding.



    @Deecey said in Poser 11 crashes when you GOZ props to Zbrush.:

    I'm not sure that this is a bug, as much as it is a workflow issue.

    Poser 11 shouldn't crash though.

    You're dealing with separate objects here, and if you export children with the parent prop you're effectively trying to combine several objects together, and the bridge doesn't know what to do, or how to combine separate objects into one. No can do.

    I'm not doing an export via File-->Export-->OBJ ... I'm using GOZ feature. The GOZ feature may in some cases export the attached props by default. There is no way to de-select attached props in the GOZ menu that appears in Poser. I have to un-parent the attached props which sometimes causes certain props to shift world position.

    Take the terrain with child props for example. When you export the terrain to ZBrush, and you are prompted to select the item to send to ZBrush......

    I'm not prompted to select what I want to GOZ to Zbrush. When I click Export Object Mesh To GOZ there is no option to choose what you want to GOZ. That would be a great idea and would most likely solve the issue. We should be able to exclude parented props when clicking GOZ via a checklist. That would solve the problem.

    Now, go back to Poser. Next you want to export one of the child props. Uncheck everything but the child prop you want to export. GoZ that to ZBrush. Export that prop as Posed also. Then "append" the child prop to the terrain in ZBrush and it should show up in the right place. The Terrain and the prop will be separate "tools" in ZBrush that you can morph independently from each other. But because they are appended into one tool, you can see how they relate to each other.

    What do you mean uncheck everything? That is not a feature of GOZ. I wish it was. Are you talking about exporting an OBJ manually? Exporting OBJ's and re-importing OBJ's for morph targets does not work. The scales are always off and it results in broken geometry.

    If you can figure out how to export an OBJ, modify it in 3d studio max or Zbrush, export it properly for use as a morph target, I would love to know how you got it to work. This has been broken since Poser's inception.

    Continue on in this manner until you export everything you need to morph to ZBrush. Morph one object at a time, and then GoZ them back to Poser. Poser should keep track of which object you are exporting back, and apply the morph to the correct prop.

    I wish this worked, but it doesn't. Like I said above, creating morph targets via OBJ has been broken since Poser first came out. I challenge anyone to write a guide on how to get this workflow working with 3D studio Max or Zbrush without the use of GOZ.

    As far as your initial example, it's the same type of situation. First export your figure using Figure > Export Figure Mesh to GoZ. When you choose the figure to export, UNCHECK the prop that is attached, because it is a separate object. Export the figure as POSED.

    I don't get the option to uncheck the prop that is attached. I really wish this feature was actually in Poser. I have to unparent the prop manually which in some cases causes the prop to change world position.

    The GOZ export option menu does not give you the option to uncheck attached props, that would be a GREAT feature though! Maybe I've missed something. Can you show me where this option is on the GOZ menu? I have Poser 11.

    Now to back to Poser again, and choose Object > Export Object Mesh to GoZ. Uncheck everything except the prop you want to morph. Export THAT as posed also.

    I wish this was an actual feature in Poser, but it's not unfortunately. Unless I'm missing something? When you click Figure ->> Export figure to GOZ, there is no way to uncheck attached props from the little menu that appears, or is there?



  • @trepleen

    " I don't get the option to uncheck the prop that is attached. I really wish this feature was actually in Poser. I have to unparent the prop manually which in some cases causes the prop to change world position.."

    Duh you're right. I was getting myself confused and thinking of OBJ export. I'm very sorry for that misstep. (I was multitasking at the time, working on something else while trying to respond)

    That being said, I've since tried several different sets that have props parented to props, and also tried props parented to figures. I haven't been able to reproduce the crash. It roundtrips fine. I've talked to some other folks. One said he can't reproduce it either, and another said the same as you, it only happens with parented props. I've tried it both ways and with several different types of content, and so far no crash.

    Sorry I couldn't be of more help, and I apologize for the confusion about my steps.



  • @Deecey

    OK let's try this again.

    1. Create a new scene in Poser. Leave Andy there.
    2. Go to the Misc Props folder in the P11 props library and add the Bag of Chips
    3. Reposition the chips so that they are in Andy's left hand. Doesn't have to be perfect, just move it so it's close enough. This is just a simple test, not an artistic one. LOL
    4. Object > Change Parent, set the parent for the chips to Andy's left hand.
    5. Now raise Andy's left arm. Again we aren't talking about a masterpiece. Just enough to test.

    To Go Z

    1. Select Andy. Figure > Export Figure Mesh to GoZ. Export Posed.
    2. Return to Poser from ZBrush after Andy is added.
    3. Select the chips. Object > Export Object Mesh to GoZ. Export Posed.
    4. In ZBrush, with the Chips selected, expand the Subtool palette and append Andy so they are both in the same tool.

    Does that simple test cause Poser to crash for you?

    0_1519166256959_Andy and chips.png

    If you can recommend some other content from the P11 library that causes you to crash I will be glad to test it. I'm not too keen on obtaining the prop you are working with (LOL) and the townhouse scene is a bit to pricey for a test.


  • Banned

    @Deecey said in Poser 11 crashes when you GOZ props to Zbrush.:

    @Deecey

    OK let's try this again.

    1. Create a new scene in Poser. Leave Andy there.
    2. Go to the Misc Props folder in the P11 props library and add the Bag of Chips
    3. Reposition the chips so that they are in Andy's left hand. Doesn't have to be perfect, just move it so it's close enough. This is just a simple test, not an artistic one. LOL
    4. Object > Change Parent, set the parent for the chips to Andy's left hand.
    5. Now raise Andy's left arm. Again we aren't talking about a masterpiece. Just enough to test.

    To Go Z

    1. Select Andy. Figure > Export Figure Mesh to GoZ. Export Posed.
    2. Return to Poser from ZBrush after Andy is added.
    3. Select the chips. Object > Export Object Mesh to GoZ. Export Posed.
    4. In ZBrush, with the Chips selected, expand the Subtool palette and append Andy so they are both in the same tool.

    Does that simple test cause Poser to crash for you?

    If you can recommend some other content from the P11 library that causes you to crash I will be glad to test it. I'm not too keen on obtaining the prop you are working with (LOL) and the townhouse scene is a bit to pricey for a test.

    This is from my original post:

    Now let's say you attach a box primitive to Andy and GOZ the box, it won't crash. You have to actually have a scene that people ACTUALLY use in commercial renders.

    I'm going to make a list of all commercial content from DAZ & Renderosity that cause the crash.

    1. Lali's bits. GOZing V4 to Zbrush with Lali's Bits attached causes a crash. Unparenting lali's bits prevents the crash from occuring but the prop shifts world position.
    2. Modern Home 1 - https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/modern-home-1-poser-amp-ds-/102255 - The Terrain prop causes a crash.

    There's more, i just have to add it to the list as I work with various assets.

    Sorry I couldn't be of more help, and I apologize for the confusion about my steps.

    You actually came up with a good idea. There should be an option for us to check what we want to GOZ to Zbrush. There should be a checklist. Your brainstorming led to a good solution. Imagine being able to select precisely what you want to GOZ to Zbrush and have it auto-append. Being able to de-select a prop from being automatically exported to Zbrush via GOZ would solve the crashing problem.



  • @trepleen

    I appreciate the content references, but I won't be purchasing or testing any "adult related" add-ons. Not my thing.



  • @trepleen said in Poser 11 crashes when you GOZ props to Zbrush.:

    There should be an option for us to check what we want to GOZ to Zbrush.

    Actually you already do when you select the figure or prop to GoZ. So I'm not sure if there is any other thing going on, especially when I haven't been able to reproduce a crash yet.



  • OK I was able to obtain the Modern Home set. Once again, I cannot reproduce a crash when I try to export the Terrain to and from ZBrush with GoZ.

    But there seems to be something odd about the terrain prop. Here's what I did. I exported the Terrain 1 prop with GoZ, and set it to "Posed" so that hopefully it would export in the correct position and scale.

    Once into ZBrush I had to subdivide the mesh to create a morph (the resolution of the base prop is too low to work with otherwise). After I displaced some of the polygons, I dialed the resolution back to the base level before GoZ'ing back to Poser.

    Here's the puzzling part. Theoretically, all that should have changed is that the prop would just displace the vertices that I moved. But the entire scale of the terrain changed as well.

    So next, I tried to export the terrain to ZBrush without checking the "Export as Posed" option. Same thing happened.

    There's something funky going on here with the content and I'm trying to assess what the problem is. Even though I'm not getting the crash like you do, doesn't work as expected with GoZ. The only thing I can think of is it might be because all of the geometries for each prop are embedded into the single "Modern Home 1" Prop file, instead of being referenced as external objects. But that might take some more digging.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @Deecey - the subdivision algorithm that Zbrush uses is different to Poser (which uses OpenSubDiv). I don't know if this will cause a problem but it has the potential; I'd suggest subdividing in Poser then passing that mesh via GoZ to Zbrush. Another thought, does the geometry pass Zbrush's Mesh Integrity test?



  • @caisson

    Yeah I thought of that. Unfortunately, subdividing the props in Poser causes all of the rectangles in the prop to turn to ovals. So if I subd before sending to GoZ, those "ovals" will be baked in on return.

    Denise