If you could program the next version of Poser...



  • What would you Add... Change ... or Get rid of? Okay, I feel I need to clarify a bit. This is NOT a wishlist thread. Been there, done that, they're still around here somewhere. I want to know what you would do to make Poser the BEST program of it's kind? So unless you absolutely believe that not having metaballs or instancing is the ONLY thing keeping Poser back... think of more.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Any 3D app depends on it's content.

    You can have the best tools and the best render engines, if you don't have the quality and error free content to render?
    There is nothing to tool with and nothing worth to render.

    Last years have shown clearly that the market goes where the highest quality figures are.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    What I would add:

    • Networked rendering - i.e., use all available computers on a home network to speed up a complex high quality wallpaper render.

    • Motion capture - using commonly available sensors and file formats in common industry use. This would also entail an adaptation subroutine to fit a motion sequence to a given doll. E.g., after capturing a motion sequence using a human actor, you could save a BVH and/or save a "fit to Roxie" PZ2.

    • Micropoly displacement for Superfly (like Firefly has)

    • Pause/Resume Superfly render. This should allow for closing Poser, even shutting down computer, and then resuming rendering in a later session.

    • Scatter/paint and drop to surface - to populate my own modeled terrain with plant props/figures.

    • Option to keep imported OBJ separate from a prop/figure when saving. When saving the new prop/figure, a prompt should pop up asking where to save the OBJ.

    What I would change (improve):

    • Dynamic hair - the current feature tends to produce bristle-y hair

    • Dynamic cloth - it sometimes gets snagged on fingers, and sometimes continues to quiver long after it should have settled into final position.

    • Skinning method - use implied muscle shape, which would also necessitate determining whether an arm .e.g. is relaxed, in flexion, or in tension (or both).

    • Area light - It shows in reflections, and a rectangular "sun" is a bit awkward. Either allow me to keep the area light itself from showing in reflections/refractions, or let me designate a mesh of my choice as an area light.



  • @seachnasaigh said in If you could program the next version of Poser...:

    What I would add:

    • Networked rendering - i.e., use all available computers on a home network to speed up a complex high quality wallpaper render.

    +1 loved that in Luxrender

    • Motion capture - using commonly available sensors and file formats in common industry use. This would also entail an adaptation subroutine to fit a motion sequence to a given doll. E.g., after capturing a motion sequence using a human actor, you could save a BVH and/or save a "fit to Roxie" PZ2.

    • Micropoly displacement for Superfly (like Firefly has)

    +1 Cycles in Blender now has this

    • Pause/Resume Superfly render. This should allow for closing Poser, even shutting down computer, and then resuming rendering in a later session.

    +1

    • Scatter/paint and drop to surface - to populate my own modeled terrain with plant props/figures.

    • Option to keep imported OBJ separate from a prop/figure when saving. When saving the new prop/figure, a prompt should pop up asking where to save the OBJ.

    What I would change (improve):

    • Dynamic hair - the current feature tends to produce bristle-y hair

    • Dynamic cloth - it sometimes gets snagged on fingers, and sometimes continues to quiver long after it should have settled into final position.

    +1 Just generally improve / update to modern, multithreaded implementation

    • Skinning method - use implied muscle shape, which would also necessitate determining whether an arm .e.g. is relaxed, in flexion, or in tension (or both).

    • Area light - It shows in reflections, and a rectangular "sun" is a bit awkward. Either allow me to keep the area light itself from showing in reflections/refractions, or let me designate a mesh of my choice as an area light.

    TBH @vilters I think SM should concentrate on the tool and leave it to merchants to make the figures I'd rather they spent the time on the tool than another pair of figures I'll never use, whereas I'm already using and creating content for PE



  • I'm just upvoting because they're saying what I think we need. There's a lot of room for improvement in the program (don't take this personally anyone - I think that for most software.) But having a great program is awesome, but what good is it if you have nothing to use in it. I'm not saying Poser should come with a billion gig of brand new content. Ideally, for me, it should have a Woman, a man and a child (or 2 children depending on if the child is young enough to pass for either gender or not) and a small wardrobe for each. The wardrobe should include a casual outfit, a dress outfit, a business outfit and underwear, shoes to match and 2 or 3 textures for each. There also could the possibility of a versatile outfit like the morphing fantasy dress that can go from schoolmarm to streetwalker with a few texture/trans map changes. There also needs to be a couple of hairs and enough morphs to be able to make the figures look different.

    I know many think vendors should do most of this, but without a solid base, figures won't take hold and vendors understandably won't support them.



  • Fill in the multitude of missing pieces of the Python API which prevent further customisation and community led extensions to Poser, such as being able to create vertex groups directly in the geometries (not just rename existing ones), to avoid having to create complex geometries via writing OBJ files line by line and then loading them into Poser.

    ARKit/ARCore integration to augment motion capture. With the increasing availability of 3D depth sensing cameras in mobile phones, I want to see "See it, shoot it, model it" workflows emerge for Poser.

    +1 Micropoly displacement in SuperFly.

    +1 Poser Session pause and resume. Whatever you're doing, rendering or posing, save the scene/state, shutdown, restart, relaunch Poser and pick up where you left off. If you're finished with a scene, close it before shutting down Poser, and Poser will next start with the default scene, rather than the one you left open.

    +1 Drop to surface, but it could be even more useful as arbitrary vectored collision, not just vertically down.

    +1 Optional separate OBJ saving. Should also include optional PMD destination: Are you updating a discrete version or the base for other figures/props which refer to the same morphs.

    I'm sorry @eclark1849 , I doesn't make sense to me to exclude changes to Poser which could equally well belong in a wishlist thread, that just doesn't seem logical. If you're trying to engender or identify new ideas which haven't previously been voiced in the many, prior wishlist threads, and don't want to wade through them all again, that's a different matter. But, unless this thread gets stickied, the ideas might as well just go in the existing stickied wishlist, as it will soon sink into oblivion. Ne c'est pas?

    Then again, I wonder ;-), perhaps, if this became a new thread because the forum software offered the option to start a new thread instead of appending to the end of the existing, months-old, stickied SMS Poser Requests thread. I was just about to post a request that SMS investigate devoting some resources to extracting all the gems of wisdom in these threads into a community appendix for their next iteration of the Poser User Manual, since so many of the discoveries that are posted here actually deserve a place in the formal documentation, and not all of them even get a mention (Bokeh effect, anyone?). At which point, I was offered the option to start a new thread, instead...



  • @anomalaus I didn't exclude anything. I DID say this isn't a wishlist, so listing just ONE feature to add, change or improve most likely won't make Poser the "Best" program of it's kind.
    For instance, Vilters thinks adding a new figure will do it. I don't. Look Genesis is a great figure. Far superior to anything SM has released. I still don't think that makes DS a better program than Poser. If I did, I'd be using DS 4.xx by now.



  • Fixing the annoying performance issues in the MacOS version of Poser. I mean if the most basic functionality like posing a dressed character becomes a nightmare of slowness (as it is right now) what is Poser good for?

    Fixing some old bugs. For example Posers unability to read OBJ files with spaces in group and material names. This issue is so super easy to fix and it becomes more and more an issue when you want to import content made for DAZ studio.

    Well thats all for now.



  • Probably this applies only for me, but avoid to rely on third party applications, plugins, whatever, to display the library would be great, given that anytime Microsoft & co. "updates" something, it may be broken forever (for "old" Poser versions) and a very big problem for users of current version who have to wait for a fix and maybe they need the to do something on a scheduled basis for their jobs.

    Since I barely tried the new version (read the above part), I can't say something more.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @eclark1849
    Hi Earl, did you think all content creators went to DS for the app??
    No they did not. (Far from)

    But everybody wants a date with the best looking chick in town. LOL
    They went over for the better looking figures and the resulting market.

    For Poser Content?

    • Content => A full and complete new family.
      => Around 20K in poly for the outer skin. + Maintain volume rigging, and free of magnets and JCM's.

    => Gums and tongue extruded from the innermouth and teeth extruded from gums to keep "lost" geometry under control.

    => Polygons "inside the outer shell" are "lost" polygons anyway.

    => Follow the "area rule". => Parts that go in "stretch when bend" need more geometry then parts that go in "shrink when bend".

    Poser core?

    • Hair room improvements including a comb and symmetry + multi core
    • Cloth room improvements + multi core
    • Drop to surface
    • Automatic and real time vertical and horizontal "collide with" deformations.

    SuperFly?
    Upgrade PhysicalSurface to full Principled BSDF functionality and get displacement functional.

    Eevee (or similar) real time render engine that also understands Posers dynamic hair => Hence, it has to become multicore for CPU too.



  • @vilters I'm biased Tony. Sure I like nice looking figures, but honestly, V4 was never my favorite DAZ figure even though I used her a lot. And to be honest. Genesis, V4 and all the characters she spawns all tend to start looking alike to me after awhile. I've said it before and I'll say it again. I like the SM figures for the variety and, for the most part they're free with the app. So no, I LIKE Genesis, but I don't NEED Genesis. I've also said thaty if I could ever get a fully rigged Poser figure into Blender, that might be the parting of the ways for me and Poser.


  • Banned

    @eclark1849 said in If you could program the next version of Poser...:

    What would you Add... Change ... or Get rid of? Okay, I feel I need to clarify a bit. This is NOT a wishlist thread. Been there, done that, they're still around here somewhere. I want to know what you would do to make Poser the BEST program of it's kind? So unless you absolutely believe that not having metaballs or instancing is the ONLY thing keeping Poser back... think of more.

    1. I'd fix the GOZ so it never, ever causes Poser to crash. This would require testing GOZ with 500+ random commercial products. I'd test it with every version of Zbrush to make sure it's perfect.

    2. I'd add the option to refresh a texture individually instead of refreshing textures of the entire scene.

    3. I'd make it so a large render cache doesn't cause poser to hang for 60 seconds after a render.

    4. I'd make it so using the same image map in different material nodes could be changed just once instead of going to every node and changing the image map.

    5. I'd completely revamp the library so it loads near instantly no matter how many project files you have and that it would never, ever fail in anyway.

    6. I'd add the option to load new UV targets for an object so you can change the UV's of any figure or prop to fix texture stretching.

    7. I'd add a soft body physics system that is extremely easy to use that causes breasts, butt, penis, balls to have perfect physics. You could even move the figure around in the scene and the breasts would bounce at 60fps in real time.

    I honestly don't know why I'm using Poser. It's turned into such a shitty product that I'm strongly considering going to DAZ, but I'd have to spend a month learning how to use it.



  • @trepleen said in If you could program the next version of Poser...:

    I'd fix the GOZ so it never, ever causes Poser to crash. This would require testing GOZ with 500+ random commercial products.

    Excuse me. I spent a considerable amount of time testing Poser with ONE of the products that always causes your system to crash. I was unable to reproduce your issue.

    Besides it would involve more than testing random commercial products. It would also be random hardware and software configurations.

    How can someone fix an issue if they can't reproduce it?

    PS ... tone down the language, please. This is a PG forum. If you really have to talk about anatomy parts, take your complaints somewhere else. People here have tried to help you. Show some respect.



  • Top of my list would be HD morphs and transforms calculated after the joint rotations.



  • @Deecey This person just wants a "Produce Perfect Porn" button so he/she doesn't even have to learn how to use Poser to make porn.

    I would program Poser with a button that is labeled "Delete Poser" from computers of people who simply refuse to learn the basics, accessed remotely by Tech Support. :-)


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @trepleen
    Step by step; Your points.

    1. Has been proven to be incorrect. If used properly GoZ is VERY stable.
    2. Depends on your fingertips and how you set up or build up your scenes. => I do that ALL the time.
    3. Seems you are the only one that never cleared its cache.
    4. Again a fingertip issue. All my obj go through Blender anyway and are converted to single 8K maps, and some of my figures textures can go up as high as 4.096x24.576 pixel maps.
    5. Again a fingertip issue. YOU choose when and where the library refreshes. It's in the options.
    6. Again a fingertip issue. Learn how to PROPERLY prepare texture maps so stretching and shrinking when bend becomes a non issue. => It is FAR less work then having multiple UV maps spanning multiple vertex groups floating around.
    7. Poser is a "general public" 3D software. It is not a XXX creation tool. and By the way? Women like endurance, it seems you are a quick-quick "my pleasure only" sprinter.

    Seems in these above statements that you are always looking for trouble in the app while you should be looking/searching for solutions.

    Your statement : "Going to DAZ but have to spend a month on how to use it?"

    Man-man-man, I have been Posering since Poser 1 some 25 years ago, and still learn and relearn each and every single day.
    Been using Blender for a year or 2 - 3 and just scratching the surface, learning and study every free minute I got in this great 3D hobby world.

    The automatic "Make art button" does not exist and neither does the button you are wishing for.


  • Banned

    @vilters said in If you could program the next version of Poser...:

    @trepleen
    Step by step; Your points.

    1. Has been proven to be incorrect. If used properly GoZ is VERY stable.
    2. Depends on your fingertips and how you set up or build up your scenes. => I do that ALL the time.
    3. Seems you are the only one that never cleared its cache.
    4. Again a fingertip issue. All my obj go through Blender anyway and are converted to single 8K maps, and some of my figures textures can go up as high as 4.096x24.576 pixel maps.
    5. Again a fingertip issue. YOU choose when and where the library refreshes. It's in the options.
    6. Again a fingertip issue. Learn how to PROPERLY prepare texture maps so stretching and shrinking when bend becomes a non issue. => It is FAR less work then having multiple UV maps spanning multiple vertex groups floating around.
    7. Poser is a "general public" 3D software. It is not a XXX creation tool. and By the way? Women like endurance, it seems you are a quick-quick "my pleasure only" sprinter.

    Seems in these above statements that you are always looking for trouble in the app while you should be looking/searching for solutions.

    Your statement : "Going to DAZ but have to spend a month on how to use it?"

    Man-man-man, I have been Posering since Poser 1 some 25 years ago, and still learn and relearn each and every single day.
    Been using Blender for a year or 2 - 3 and just scratching the surface, learning and study every free minute I got in this great 3D hobby world.

    The automatic "Make art button" does not exist and neither does the button you are wishing for.

    1. I'm not lying. My Poser 11 crashes when I try to GOZ with two objects. Does Poser 11 leave behind a detailed crash debug log? If it does I can post it. I strongly doubt the Poser team cares about a detailed crash debug log, lol.

    2. You cannot refresh an image map in the material node invidivudlaly. You have to click "reload textures" which reloads them all.

    3. I have an i7 processor, 2TB SSD hard drive and 32gb ram. I'd set the render cache to 10,000 if I could. There is ZERO reason why Poser should hang after a render is complete. The process of exporting a rendered image takes about 1 second and a thumbnail creation should take another second.

    4. What does that have to do with changing image map files in the material room? lol

    5. In regards to the library. Earlier today when I tried to use the library. It was just a blank grey screen. I had to restart Poser to get it to work again.

    6. You're stuck in a 2008 mentality. Now a days people want to use multiple UV sets for figures that have undergone extreme deformations.

    7. Adult content paves the way for hobbiests. Adult first, hobbyists aka non adult SECOND. Always make Adult your first priority. Had Poser done this, they wouldn't of been annihilated by DAZ Studio.



  • @trepleen said in If you could program the next version of Poser...:

    @vilters said in If you could program the next version of Poser...:

    @trepleen
    Step by step; Your points.

    1. Has been proven to be incorrect. If used properly GoZ is VERY stable.
    2. Depends on your fingertips and how you set up or build up your scenes. => I do that ALL the time.
    3. Seems you are the only one that never cleared its cache.
    4. Again a fingertip issue. All my obj go through Blender anyway and are converted to single 8K maps, and some of my figures textures can go up as high as 4.096x24.576 pixel maps.
    5. Again a fingertip issue. YOU choose when and where the library refreshes. It's in the options.
    6. Again a fingertip issue. Learn how to PROPERLY prepare texture maps so stretching and shrinking when bend becomes a non issue. => It is FAR less work then having multiple UV maps spanning multiple vertex groups floating around.
    7. Poser is a "general public" 3D software. It is not a XXX creation tool. and By the way? Women like endurance, it seems you are a quick-quick "my pleasure only" sprinter.

    Seems in these above statements that you are always looking for trouble in the app while you should be looking/searching for solutions.

    Your statement : "Going to DAZ but have to spend a month on how to use it?"

    Man-man-man, I have been Posering since Poser 1 some 25 years ago, and still learn and relearn each and every single day.
    Been using Blender for a year or 2 - 3 and just scratching the surface, learning and study every free minute I got in this great 3D hobby world.

    The automatic "Make art button" does not exist and neither does the button you are wishing for.

    1. I'm not lying. My Poser 11 crashes when I try to GOZ with two objects. Does Poser 11 leave behind a detailed crash debug log? If it does I can post it. I strongly doubt the Poser team cares about a detailed crash debug log, lol.

    2. You cannot refresh an image map in the material node invidivudlaly. You have to click "reload textures" which reloads them all.

    3. I have an i7 processor, 2TB SSD hard drive and 32gb ram. I'd set the render cache to 10,000 if I could. There is ZERO reason why Poser should hang after a render is complete. The process of exporting a rendered image takes about 1 second and a thumbnail creation should take another second.

    4. What does that have to do with changing image map files in the material room? lol

    5. In regards to the library. Earlier today when I tried to use the library. It was just a blank grey screen. I had to restart Poser to get it to work again.

    6. You're stuck in a 2008 mentality. Now a days people want to use multiple UV sets for figures that have undergone extreme deformations.

    7. Adult content paves the way for hobbiests. Adult first, hobbyists aka non adult SECOND. Always make Adult your first priority. Had Poser done this, they wouldn't of been annihilated by DAZ Studio.

    RE #1. Did you ever contact tech support and attach a log file? (Read the "Using the Log Window" section on page 51 of your user guide. Imagine that. It's in the manual.

    "The Log window enables you to view a list of ongoing commands as you use them
    in Poser. You can filter these comments on various criteria (timestamp, category,
    application commands, group selections, warnings, and debug information). This
    information can be useful when you are trying to troubleshoot a problem with
    Technical Support."

    As for the rest, you have been told multiple times that I have been able to load one of those props into ZBrush without it crashing. That means (1) It's not Poser; (2) It's not ZBrush, (3) And it's possibly not the content. As for the other content that you say crashes, I already said I won't be going there. I'm not going to spend that money for a prop I will never use otherwise. On that one you'll have to touch base with the people you claim are at the cutting edge of Poser, instead of us "hobbiests". LOL if you only knew.

    #3 ... I'd set the render cache to 10,000 if I could. Why on earth do you need a cache with 10000, or even 1000 images? I know you render animations, why don't you render to individual image files? That's in the manual too.

    #6 ... Well you can always use DAZ Studio. No one is stopping you. But you'll have to read the manual. Good luck with that.

    #7 ... You really have to be kidding. Are you implying that adult is DAZ's first priority? Obviously you don't know the DAZ community very well either.



  • I tried to stay away from this thread as this very easily becomes another wishlist of which functions should be made better, faster, more capable, more proficient, etc...

    Yet tonight it came to me a thought that, if it was possible (and this is not really feasible) to rewrite Poser from the bottom up, and whoever sponsoring it had the pockets for that (and I suspect that's even less possible), then the matter that I see is not how to make another Maya or DAZ or Houdini or Blender or ZBrush or Cinema 4D or whatever else that crowds the market. The market is crowded, and there's no way around it.

    The core of the matter is, I suspect, an animating/rendering tool that can use the same principles as SketchUp, then offer it for free for 3-4 years, then split it into a free and a paid pro version. By that I mean, how to make it provide complex behaviors while at the same time keeping a minimal interface. That's the revolutionary thing that SketchUp did.

    Compare Blender to SketchUp for modelling alone. Yes, Blender can do much more, but then it has 600 commands that old people like me can never remember; so whenever possible I use SketchUp, because I can do 90% of what Blender does while using only 12 icons or so - and there's always a tip showing up to remind me of what Alt does and what Ctrl does, plus the other modifiers.

    Or look at the glory of Marvelous Designer. Even less icons! If I try to build a cloth in Blender I have to remember 800 commands, in MD I can do it all by learning 6 functions or so.

    So when Poser started it was also very much simple; nowadays it has a lot of things I have no idea what they are for ("Bake transformations"... uh?... "Poser Traditional or Unimesh"... what?... "Pose Symmetry or Rig Symmetry"... say again?).

    So I say, don't try to make it another iClone. Make it a minimalist Animation/Posing/Rendering thingie, that can pack reasonable and intelligent behaviors in a few icons with a few modifiers. It all comes down to interface design.

    ps: another thing, I'd love to be able to speak "Dude, stand up!", "Dudette, sit down!", "Light 1, a bit more red.. bit brighter.. less color.. good!"... and then the toons and lights would do the same... or, for an intelligent interface.. "Poser, that shirt is poking through the body, fix it your goddarnswofitty indecent jabberwocky!" and then Poser fixes the poke through...



  • @Glitterati3D said in If you could program the next version of Poser...:

    @Deecey This person just wants a "Produce Perfect Porn" button so he/she doesn't even have to learn how to use Poser to make porn.

    If you don't like that, fine. If others like to make porn art, it's their business, not yours. BTW: sorry for the upvote, done by mistake.