Skin Material One Moment, Black the Next



  • I created a scene with the character Victoria 4.2 on my desktop. It renders great. Today, I opened that same scene (without any missing file errors, and from the SAME hard drive as my desktop) and the preview on the screen shows Victoria 4.2 looking like she has black, bronzed skin.

    Now, this happened on a different scene with a different character a while back. I went in to the render settings and set SuperFly to factory defaults and it resolved the problem. However, today I tried doing that to no avail.

    What else can I try? And, why is it different?

    Here are the details:

    1. It only happens on this file. Others load okay.
    2. It renders okay with SuperFly and Firefly. The skin looks normal
    3. If I add a different skin MAT to Victoria 4.2 in this scene, it looks okay. (Which leads me to believe it has something to do with the skin MAT itself, however, it is the same file on my laptop as on my desktop.)

    Also, could it be a difference in GPUs? Desktop - Nvidia GTX 960 , Laptop - Intel HD 520. If so, is there a setting I should change on the laptop?



  • @dbwalton this is from bad Firefly shaders being used in Superfly.



  • @ghostship And, what do I need to do to fix it?



  • @ghostship said in Skin Material One Moment, Black the Next:

    @dbwalton this is from bad Firefly shaders being used in Superfly.

    I disagree. My diagnosis would be the display settings between the different graphics cards. Desktop = Nvida, Laptop=Intel.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @dbwalton said in Skin Material One Moment, Black the Next:

    the preview on the screen ...

    I was with you until you said

    went in to the render settings and set SuperFly to factory defaults and it resolved the problem

    and the wheels fall off.

    Preview problems are related to your video graphics ABILITY to handle certain "complex" node setups. Complex in this case is a vague useless word which means simply whatever isn't simple enough to work.

    When preview works on one computer but not the next, it usually comes down to the shader having something that only works in OpenGL driver of one of those machines, not both.

    Your assertion that changing render settings for SuperFly renderer, and not for the Preview Renderer, is highly disorienting and prevents me from making a sensible recommendation.

    There is a whole tab full of Preview render settings - perhaps you need to deal with that.

    For example, you may have told it to use 4 GB of preview texture RAM, but you only have 2 GB on one of those computers.



  • I have noted on some occasions that the preview changes depending on the choice for SF or FF. Maybe Poser somehow tries to make the preview 'as good as practicable for the selected render engine' ?
    Then if the shaders fo SF and FF are different and your graphics card cannot fully cope with one of them, you may get the black. I have this also now and then (my video card really is small and beyond its fresh date), but I see no clear line in what triggers the effect.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @F_Verbaas said in Skin Material One Moment, Black the Next:

    I have noted on some occasions that the preview changes depending on the choice for SF or FF. Maybe Poser somehow tries to make the preview 'as good as practicable for the selected render engine' ?
    Then if the shaders fo SF and FF are different and your graphics card cannot fully cope with one of them, you may get the black. I have this also now and then (my video card really is small and beyond its fresh date), but I see no clear line in what triggers the effect.

    This is true, the preview tries to mimic the shader for the active renderer, and since a hybrid shader is possible which differs, especially if using Cycles-only nodes, the preview can barf when switch to SuperFly.

    However, OP didn't say he switched renderers, he said "went in to the render settings and set SuperFly to factory defaults and it resolved the problem". Nowhere does he say he wasn't already on SuperFly.



  • @bagginsbill
    sure but also he did not say he was not... and switching renderers was the most plausible explanation.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Are you using OpenGL preview or SreeD? SreeD ignores Alternate_Diffuse (which is commonly where "real" skin shaders do their work) and only shows what's in the first slot, the Diffuse_Color of the Poser Surface root node.



  • Maybe you could also check the material for unused root nodes or root nodes set for Firefly that don't have textures set up to show in preview. I've had that happen. When you reload the scene, poser gets confused and guesses which root node to preview.



  • @bagginsbill OpenGL. I tried SreeD and get similar results.

    Oh, and someone else asked about video graphics memory - 9GB on the desktop, 8GB on the laptop.

    Also, this happened a while back, and setting SuperFly to defaults solved the problem. However, in this instance, it doesn't make a difference.

    And, if I drag a new MAT file on to this character, it looks fine until I save it, exit poser, and re-open it again in poser. Then I'm back to black skin.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @dbwalton said in Skin Material One Moment, Black the Next:

    looks fine until I save it, exit poser, and re-open it again in poser. Then I'm back to black skin.

    Ow - sorry that is not something I've ever seen and don't have any explanation for with regard to any settings at all. If settings or shaders or anything really don't act the same after save + re-open I have no clue.



  • @dbwalton is this the result you are getting?
    0_1521059904598_No Diffuse.jpg



  • @ghostship That's what it looks like, except with clothes on. ;)


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @dbwalton said in Skin Material One Moment, Black the Next:

    Intel HD 520

    Just out of curiosity, try setting the driver memory footprint to low.



  • @dbwalton what you are seeing is probably the Poser root with diffuse set to 0 as in off and quite a bit of white specular. You might have a dual shader setup with a Poser root and a Cycles root. Make sure that the Cycles surface has the Superfly root checked otherwise the Firefly root that works fine in Firefly will try to render in Superfly and you'll end up with this "Egyptian statue" look.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    I tested with separate roots, using CyclesSurface, and that still showed something for the diffuse correctly in preview. (Obviously it wasn't doing scattering, but I could see the texture.)

    I placed a blue tint on the PoserSurface (for FireFly) and a red tint on the CyclesSurface (for SuperFly) and the texture was plugged in to those. As I switched the active renderer (FF vs. SF) the preview would switch between blue and red, so it was doing a decent job of interpreting even the cycles-only node shader.

    So I don't think it's a simple as that.

    The only time I got black preview for diffuse was when using SreeD combined with a PoserSurface with black in the Diffuse_Color.



  • @ghostship As a newbie to Poser, what you said just went right over my head (regarding the Cycles root and Poser root.) I just went looking through the Poser Reference Manual and found the chapter on Cycles Nodes, but I'm not making the connection with what you said I should do. (This was in response to your post yesterday.)

    Today: @bagginsbill Reading what you did with the red and blue makes sense now. I'm not sure when I get to test it next (things are busy at my studio right now), but if I follow correctly, you moved the "plug" from the blue tinted PoserSurface to a red tinted CyclesSurface and it changed from red to blue respectively. I'll have to look at what it looks like when using my desktop, and then open the file on my laptop and see if they change. I'm not sure why they would/should change, but it might shed light on the issue.

    Again, remember I'm new to Poser, however, I know my way around the computer quite well. So, just point me in the right direction where I can find stuff. As with learning any new technology, the biggest hurdle is learning the lingo. Some of this stuff I've tried to do Internet searches for the answers and discover... I'm not speaking their lingo... yet. ;)

    Oh, and this really doesn't speak well of SmithMicro's forum, and it explains why it takes do doggone long to resolve issues with Poser. When I clicked submit, it said, "As a new user, you can only post once every 9500 second(s) until you have earned 3 reputation - please wait before posting again". In other words, you have to wait 159 minutes between replies to questions from people who are trying to help you solve your issue.

    Seriously? 2.6 hours between posts?



  • @dbwalton Welcome on board... XD
    There's never enough reputation to do anything as an average forum user, but if you're a spammer, instead, you can do everything without problems.
    If you're a "new" poster, you've to wait to post, you can't report, you've difficulties to upload images...
    This forum is very useful and here you can learn a lot of tricks and notions, however I've almost given up, because of all these limitations for a normal forum user.
    Never had a similar bad experience as with a forum like this.

    Sorry for the rant.



  • @fonpaolo said in Skin Material One Moment, Black the Next:

    @dbwalton Welcome on board... XD
    There's never enough reputation to do anything as an average forum user, but if you're a spammer, instead, you can do everything without problems.
    If you're a "new" poster, you've to wait to post, you can't report, you've difficulties to upload images...
    This forum is very useful and here you can learn a lot of tricks and notions, however I've almost given up, because of all these limitations for a normal forum user.
    Never had a similar bad experience as with a forum like this.

    Sorry for the rant.

    Spammers, by their very nature, are rule breakers. Most forums try their best to get rid of them or keep them out, but you also have to remember that what ever you implement will also have repercussions with the normal forum population.

    And then sometimes the natives go a little nuts...

    https://forum.smithmicro.com/topic/1073/i-ve-got-the-most-dislikes-in-forum-history

    Never did find out who that was, or what I did that triggered them.... :)