Need help rigging Boots

  • I've made a couple of pairs of shoes for PE, I posed PE's feet and modeled the shoe around that I then imported the model and parented it to her left foot then zeroed PE went into fittiing and created a figure, works like a charm as I only went as far as the foot so no issues with the toes,

    I got carried away with my cobbling skills and made a pair of ankle boots, which of course go up the shins a little so following the previous pattern I get the shin bent back when it is conformed. If I try to fit it with PE posed then everything looks okay until I conform it, at which point the foot of the boot bends down below PE's foot but the shin stays correct. There must be a way of doing this, modelling to PE in zero for something like boots just isn't really possible, well not for someone with my (lack) of modelling skills. Surely it must be possible to transfer the bones from a donor in a posed position with the donee getting that skeleton with rotations that would be zeroed out if the figure is zeroed.

    I've tried all combintions I can think of Zero PE in the fitting room, don't zero, zero rotations when creating the figure, don't zero rotations when creating the figure. Any help with this specific requirement would be most appreciated. I can share the rudimentary model if that helps.

  • After you leave the set up room, are you zeroing out your boots and then clicking on edit/memorize/memorize figure? Sometimes not doing this step causes me major headaches.
    I usually save the boots or whatever clothing item to the library, then delete the model I was working on and bring the newly saved one onto the stage for testing. I've found that I have to do this with several of the characters I create clothes for when using a donor rig. I don't know why things get out of phase if I don't.

  • @rokketman Hi, so you do use a non-zeroed donor? How do you do that?

  • @amethystpendant The figure I model to is zeroed out before I export it from Poser. When you are in the setup room, you can't zero the donor rig before you apply it to your mesh, so you have to zero it out after you exit the set up room. That is when I go through the steps I outlined in my first post.

  • Since you modeled to the posed foot, the only way to make it work on a weight mapped figure is to bring your shoes in as props to the posed foot. Parent the shoes, zero the figure, then save them. As props.

    Then, the final step is to bring in the zeroed shoes and rig them as conformers, ZEROED. You can't rig shoes modeled to a weight mapped figure in a non-zero pose.

    I model shoes for weight mapped figures to the zeroed foot.


  • @rokketman and @Glitterati3D thanks for replying, even if it is not what I want to hear. So basically all conforming clothes has to be modelled against a zero posed conformer. This makes absolutely no sense. If I create a jacket, the sleeve to body seams etc are made based on an A pose, as they are in real life, no suit jacket is stitched with the arms outstretched. What about a cape, are you saying that has to be modeled with all the folds it would have if the arms were outstretched and then morph them out when PE is in a relaxed natural pose?

  • @amethystpendant Yes, ma'am. Sorry, that's just how it works.

  • @Glitterati3D I notice you are getting instructions not to rig the toes of shoes. I always rig the toes in conforming shoes. They do not add a lot of work, and the shoes fit and pose much better when rigged all the way to the toes. Now, perhaps this is about shoe conversions, I wouldn't know....I just model what I need and don't bother with conversions.

    My heels for PE, conformers, modeled to a flat foot and posed in Poser after conforming to PE.


  • @Glitterati3D said in Need help rigging Boots:

    @amethystpendant Yes, ma'am. Sorry, that's just how it works.

    I would say that is the way it doesn't work.

    I haven't needed to do the toes yet, but where I'm having problems is shins of a pair of ankle boots. I'm not beaten yet I'm sure this must be possible, I am not going to model boots based on flat foot pose, I'd rather not model them

  • @amethystpendant You know, that's how we've been modeling and rigging clothing and shoes forever. I realize you do mostly dynamic pieces, but there's nothing easy or simple about rigging and modeling.

    Those of us who have been doing it a while have long ago figured out the best way to get the job done without re-inventing the wheel every time.

  • @RobZhena said over on Rendo "Forgetful me! Fortunately, I slept on your question and realized I had described the solution in my how-to on converting G3F shoes to PE on the SM board, though I left out a step that hopefully readers would deduce for themselves. So here is your solution:

    Model to the posed foot.

    Use the fitting room to create figures rigged down to and including the toe, with your boot(s) as the object and non-zeroed PE as the goal, depending on whether you want to rig as a pair or separately. This/these figures will not conform properly.

    In the pose room, zero PE. Your boots now have the analogous body parts to PE. Pose the boots to fit the zeroed figure. Export the boots as one or two objs with the body parts you will need from the thigh/shin/foot/toe chain. Reimport your obj(s) and fit them to zeroed PE.

    In the fitting room, use the non-zeroed obj as the object and the zeroed PE as the goal. Add the bones only down to the foot. Do not/not rig the toes . Click create figure.

    Et voila! Rigged boots"

    I tried that but got poor bends near the foot / shin joint (ankle) when it was posed back in to the original position. My solution was
    1 Pose the foot (bend 29 degrees) Toes bend -24 degrees
    2 Model boot around posed foot
    3 Export model from Blender and import in to Poser
    4 Pose PE
    5 Use fitting room to create figure from zeroed prop / non- zeroed PE down to foot only
    6 Conform new figure to PE
    7 Bend foot of new figure -29 degrees (provide pose to do this)

    Job done. It's not perfect, but it is nearer to perfect than it would have been if I'd tried to model it against a flat foot.

    So no wheel re-invention; I haven't been doing this a while, but I do like envelope pushing... If I didn't I'd still think Cloth Dynamics can't cope with multiple layers :)


  • @Glitterati3D With PE, toes are fine for flats, but I have found consistently that if you rig the toe for a high heel, it causes weird bending issues than disappear if you don’t rig the toe.

  • @RobZhena I rigged my heels for PE with toes and they are fine. There's only one tough spot and that's the JCM on the heel. But, once you add in the JCM the shoes fit perfect and bend well with the foot in all poses I tried.

  • Huh. Well, not rigging the toe works fine, too.

  • @RobZhena Conforming pumps on Project E modeled to a flat foot.

  • Yes, you're in great shape if you model to the flat foot, but @amethystpendant specifically wanted to model to a posed foot. I found the problem with the ankle-to-toe chain converting Arryn's G3F shoes--which load in DS zeroed but with the toe pre-bent--in beta testing and reported it. That's when I came up with the work-around of leaving out the toe. As I recall, at that time copying the joint zones did not fix the weird bends. Maybe Ero tweaked it.

  • @Glitterati3D Nice! I just can't get my visual head around where the bends would go, I find it hard enough modelling against a posed figure

    I did find that in the cr2 file for the xRotate on the foot if I set the initValue to be -29 when unconformed they look "normal" and if I pose PE with a foot xrotate of 29 and conform my boots they still look "normal" which is a real bonus!


  • @Glitterati3D Are you going to make those available for sale?

  • @RobZhena Probably not those shoes - not my best quality, just did a rush job to help out some promo artists so they had shoes to put on Evolution as backdrop.

    Eventually, I will probably make some stuff for her, but right now I'm working on Bella.