VR 360 in poser?



  • Hello there!

    I'm an old poser user (the latest version i purchased is poser pro 2014, but i took a break from animating for the past few years).

    I want to know if there has been any progress regarding rendering 360(spherical) content inside of poser, using firefly?

    kind regards and thanks,



  • @gsfcreator maybe others can speak with more authority on Poser's features, but a quick search of VR Render, shows that Blender, at the very least, has far more relevant configuration options specific to equi-spherical or equi-rectangular renders than Poser. The best options for this seem to be Cycles/SuperFly rather than Firefly specific, and the last thing I saw which even approached that kind of render distortion, was @bagginsbill 's special geometry prop for rendering light probes, which return a 360 degree render within a circular area by virtue of the mathematically calculated shape of the special prop.

    Hopefully others can shed more light on whether this is a possible future direction for Poser.



  • thank you so much for your answer, anomalaus!

    so, at the moment, what are the best options for VR360? I've never used blender before (was creating 100% inside poser, including the rendering). is it possible to create the scenes in poser and then export to blender and do the rendering there?


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    @gsfcreator
    I have done VR 360 with Rendering my Poser scene in Octane. I has an option to create them.
    No idea about blender.



  • @wimvdb awesome! checking out this octane render plugin! thx! :)



  • @wimvdb can you explain the process with Octane? where do i find the option to change the camera into equirectangular?


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    @gsfcreator said in VR 360 in poser?:

    @wimvdb can you explain the process with Octane? where do i find the option to change the camera into equirectangular?

    You create your complete 3d scene in Poser, place your camera (i use the Dolly camera) in the center of your scene. I used an HDRI to make sure that all angles are covered outside my props set.

    Then I use the plugin with the following settings (from the octane plugin):

    0_1522497851050_vrsettings.jpg

    Make sure the resolution is the right one - 18432x1536

    Output is saved as PNG.

    Some tips - Be careful with tiling textures when using it for things as walls. Since you now have a 360 view, some seams may get visible.

    Here are a lot of samples done in Octane for a contest.
    https://render.otoy.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=97&start=175

    My first attempt is Sunny day at the pool in those entries.

    Another tip - Octane v4 will be free for personal use with 1 PC and up to 2 GPU cards. It is not available yet, but will soon be. I have no information whether the Poser plugin will be free as well.



  • @wimvdb

    1. thank you so much for your thorough explanation, my friend!
      your sample with the pool looks awesome!

    2. is there any specific reason as for why using that exact resolution?

    3. the render engine pulls out the final output as you posted it on that thread? no need for any stitching in a different software whatsoever, right?

    4. I see that most samples there us the cube format (6 images that creates the panoramic view), but I also know there is a way of making this with spherical view, that requires a lot more "core" images (62, to be exact). is there any difference between the two? I hope this one is clear enough, lol

    thanks again!

    if Octane can produce 360 ready-to-use images, without any need to stitch on my own, it will be worth my money.


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    @gsfcreator said in VR 360 in poser?:

    , without any n
    I think that resolution and mapping was required for the competition at that time.
    But you can set them to other sizes as well and mapping can be equi-rectangular/spherical or cylindrical too.

    The output the render engine produced was final, no stitching or other manipulation was needed, i could just upload the image file to my samsung phone and watch it. You can do movies in that resolution too.

    So I think it is what you are looking for and it does help that Octane renders a lot faster as SF or FF with the right videocards.



  • sounds terrific. one last question: I see that octane offers a plugin for poser, and also a standalone software. do i need both or just the plugin?

    thanks again for your kind help <3


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    @gsfcreator said in VR 360 in poser?:

    sounds terrific. one last question: I see that octane offers a plugin for poser, and also a standalone software. do i need both or just the plugin?

    thanks again for your kind help <3

    If you have an entire poser scene and want to render in Standalone, you need to export the entire scene as obj, then apply or adapt materials if needed (most likely, since OBJ export does not take all textures and mat settings), then add lights in Octane. Then you have to set up your camera. Once you have done that you can render it in standalone (normal or VR).

    The plugin will do the material adaptation directly, it can take poser lights, it will sync the cameras and sunlight directly. Apart from converting materials, the plugin has also lots of macros which are useful when adapting materials (single or in bulk). You can also sync the poser scene directly while rendering in octane (move or change geometry).
    The plugin will also allow you to save octane data directly in your scene and allow you to save the octane material directly with your Poser materials.

    The plugin contains the octane render software itself, but you need the Octane license to run it (together with the plugin licence). At least that is the current situation and may change when V4 is released.



  • @wimvdb is there a release date for V4?


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    @gsfcreator said in VR 360 in poser?:

    @wimvdb is there a release date for V4?

    No, there is no date given yet.
    It depends on the release of Octane v3.08 which is almost final (release candidate 3).
    V4 includes all of the new functionality of 3.08 plus additional features which have been developed in parallel and should be near to completion too.


    This an interesting stream (audio only) with the main developer of Otoy a few weeks ago which gives some insight on the release path.



  • @wimvdb I have purchased the software (license and plugin), but for some reason it won't work for me. I get a blank window when I click on the "run viewport" button. it loads the meshes, stops at 83...can't render anything :(

    I opened a ticket there. I hope its something solvable.

    update now i manage to have some preview, but i can't get the 360 output correctly. I get an error when i try to change the resolution to the numbers you stated. also - the quality of the render is just terrible, years away from what firefly brings. a lot of tweaks to be done? :(


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    @gsfcreator said in VR 360 in poser?:

    @wimvdb I have purchased the software (license and plugin), but for some reason it won't work for me. I get a blank window when I click on the "run viewport" button. it loads the meshes, stops at 83...can't render anything :(

    I opened a ticket there. I hope its something solvable.

    update now i manage to have some preview, but i can't get the 360 output correctly. I get an error when i try to change the resolution to the numbers you stated. also - the quality of the render is just terrible, years away from what firefly brings. a lot of tweaks to be done? :(

    Let's first try a very simple scene to see if all is working correctly:

    • Start with a new default scene (p11) with Andy in it
    • now disable ground (ctrl-g).
    • Change light2 to an infinite and set the strength to 100 (This will be the sun)
    • Start the plugin

    In the Settings tab do the following:

    • In Environment set the sky texture to an HDRI (I used HDRVFX_pond_01_c_002.hdr from Posers own runtime). Set the gamma to 1 for hdri.
    • In Camera set it to Panoramic camera from the drop down
    • Set Projectiion to Cubic
    • Turn on Side-Side in Stereo Output

    Now make sure that the little monitor button next to the Help button in Settings is turned green (click on it).
    Now you can change the resolution to 18432 x 1536 (make sure ratio is not locked)

    Press the Open Viewport and it will start to render and you will clearly see the hdri appear almost immediately and when you use the scrollbar on the viewport, you will see the different views.

    If this works, then we can go to doing a real scene where we need to convert the poser lights.

    One more question - what GPU card do you have? And what version of the driver is installed?



  • @wimvdb said in VR 360 in poser?:

    HDRVFX_pond_01_c_002.hdr

    1. thx! trying it now. it should take 2 hours(?! does that make any sense? I have a strong pc, rendering in firefly takes seconds to minutes if i use the highest sets possible, shadows, reflections and everything...I guess its because of the insane resolution settings?).
      I couldn't find any .hdr files on my poser runtime(s), so I just placed a skydom object into the scene. I hope it's not a mess.

    2. I use Nvidia GTX760, driver = 23.21.13.9077 (updated on jan 2018).

    3. I'll update as soon as this is done. the problem is i need to do this with my own scenes, and from the little testing that I've done, I saw so many problems:

    • if my camera is scaled - the octane won't render it (and I have to scale down my cameras for some of the stuff that I'm doing...)

    • fingers/toenails of models won't pass properly to the octane renderer. it seems detached from the body.

    • couldn't get the lights of my scene to transport to octane. I used the python script to generate the emitters, but when I open the viewport, only the standard lights of the environment effects the scene. my emitters do nothing.

    I'll be back to report when the render is done <3.


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    @gsfcreator said in VR 360 in poser?:

    GTX760

    Ok, i already see some things we can fix.

    First of all the rendertime - we have to adjust some settings.

    • Rendering in octane is done when you think it is done, in other words you can either set the number max samples (in kernel) to a certain value (5000 is more than enough in most cases) or you can simply stop when it looks good. With the scene I described, a few 100 samples is more than enough. I think the default is set to 16000 which is very high and almost never needed. Render for a few hunder samples should at max take a few minutes on your machine.
    • Make sure the Kernel is set to path tracing
    • you can enable adaptive sampling, which will speed up renders
    • If you have a more powerful GPU card you can set the parallel samples to 16

    A skydome - if not HDR - will not work correctly as a sky texture or environment texture. The reason is that a JPG or PNG will not contain light intensity information, this is needed to get good lighting. The HDR texture I mentioned is in the standard poser runtime (from P7 onwards) in the shared document folder (users/public/documents) in the HDRVFX folder in textures.

    The NVidia 760 has 2GB of memory, which is not a lot for GPU rendering, but it will work. It just means that in larger scenes you need to enable out of core textures. You can find that in the Setup window (Settings tab).

    In the setup window you can also find the an option to enable camera scaling. It is off by default.

    About the finger nails - i have never seen that problem. It is probably due to the way the materials have been converted. The conversion tries to figure out whether a transparent material is a specular material (glass) or just partly transparent. After passing a treshold, it will convert it to specular. You can turn of that type of conversion in the setup window (Convert transparent to specular).

    Here is a picture i did yesterday. Rendertime a few minutes.

    0_1522587367348_biebie2.jpg

    There are many tricks to make conversion easy. One of them is to once make a good material for a skin, save that material, and reapply that material to a figure while keeping the original textures. There are lots of tricks like that.



  • @wimvdb said in VR 360 in poser?:

    HDRVFX_pond_01_c_002.hdr

    Ok, my friend! already learned a few things! I sense some hope...:)))

    this is what I got:

    0_1522589189052_888369a6-1e0a-4074-b1b3-3c1ba3dc5f1e-image.png

    (Ignore the stripes - Its a screenshot).

    I couldn't find the .hdr anywhere. is that how its supposed to look?

    your render looks terrific!!!

    I'm planning to get a brand new pc with a mush stronger GPU card. I just want to see that I manage to get decent results (I have created animations for many years, but compared to you guys I'm a noob. I only learn what I need as I go, thus - lacking a lot of sideways knowledge...).

    I already enabled the camera scaling - but still got a blank bluish window instead of a render. any idea how to fix that? (in poser, the camera sees everything perfectly and firefly renders smoothly).

    also - the Convert transparent to specular was set to off - and still I get deformed toenails. look:

    octane (just beginning of rendering, but you can see it clearly):

    0_1522590591828_0db7b19f-9d59-422f-b8fb-c7d7af24033a-image.png

    same image rendered in firefly (5 seconds):

    0_1522590695938_e33e9898-4815-4132-94a7-f75d856c0d67-image.png

    also, My emitters won't effect the scene whatsoever. I change the values but something is still "burning" the top part of my model:

    0_1522591095200_0ecca2c9-9c7a-4d98-bf65-8dc2d0266204-image.png

    any way to reduce the graininess (noise) ? the renders coems out extremely noisy (in firefly its oil-smooth).
    that's what I have in environment:

    0_1522591152158_7bb7cded-615d-4a62-931b-687d5ac4ba7a-image.png

    thank you so much for your patient and help! are you associated with OTOY? (because they didn't even answered my ticket, yet :-( )


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    @gsfcreator said in VR 360 in poser?:

    lacking a lot of sideways

    Ok, lots things again...

    That HDR is probably installed with the additional content, no idea.
    But here is a link where you can get HDRI's for free: https://hdrihaven.com/hdris/
    get the 4K or 8K one for best results.

    The render output looks ok with regards to how it is divided.
    Check the VR viewer on what type of projection is supported and choose the best one.

    I never use camera scaling, i use the translate and focus to get the frame right. But you have to take camera clipping into account. Poser uses 0.244m and Octane uses 0.0m. It is possible that a wall is blocking the view. Also make sure that the camera is not below the ground. Move the camera around to see if it is any of these.

    The nails. It very much looks like the nails have displacement. If this is true, check the material for the nails. Check the displacement map itself to see whether the displacement map has grey as 0 displacement, or black. If it is grey, set midlevel to 0.5 (default), it is black, set it to 0. Also check the gamma of that map, it should be 1 in the plugin. For finer detail set the level of detail to the size of the map.
    Most likely problem i think is that the displacement map midlevel was wrong.

    With regards to lights a couple of things
    You have set it to a white sphere at 200% strength. That is a LOT.
    Texture environment should only be used with HDRI. That will provide both the background and lighting.
    For now, make sure you have a infinite light in your scene and set the environment to daylight. Now you will have a sky and a sun. Also make sure that the ground prop is invisible so sun and sky are not blocked.

    There are 2 main types of light in Octane - sunlight and mesh lights. There are a few scripts installed by the plugin which can convert spotlights and pointlights to mesh lights. You have to lower the intensity in the plugin afterwards, since they will be too bright.

    Meshlights can be any material of a prop or figure. It is diffuse material type and emission node defines its strength and properties. It will emit light in the direction of the normals. So a one sided plane will emit light only in one direction. A cube will emit light in 6 directions. The strength is the texture value multiplied by power.
    If you use a one sided plane (which i prefer and is what plugin script creates for poser lights) the size of the plane also influences the amount of light emitted. I prefer large emitters because it renders a lot faster. You can also influence the importance of the emitter by increasing sampling rate in the emission node.

    The fastest render times are with HDRI. The slowest are with low lights and small emitters. In the screencap you showed, it looks like there have only been a few samples. You need at least a few hundred samples to have it look good.

    One last remark - if you get the single bright white mini spots at the end of the render, go to the Imager section on Settings tab and set hot pixel removal to 0. Everything in Imager section is non destructive (does not restart the render), so you can set it at the end if needed. It makes it slight less sharp, so do not use it if not needed.



  • @gsfcreator looks like the wrong units scale on the bump/displacement for the skin surface, which has shrunk away from the nails, in comparison to the FF render, the nails have the same proportions, but the toes are all skinny, like fingers.


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