Does BB's hair shader slow rendering down?



  • I've been playing around with BB's hair shader for SuperFly in hopes of improving the realism of my characters, and while the results are excellent (as BB's work usually is), the shader seems to dramatically increase render time. Here's a draft render of what I'm rendering more fully right now.

    0_1525067221292_DraftHair.jpg

    Before I incorporated BBs hair shader, a final-quality version of the above would've been finished in about 7 hours. With the improved hair, it seems to take at least twice that long and maybe even a whole day. These are my render settings.

    0_1525067586724_RenderSettings.jpg

    Have any other users of BB's hair shader noticed that it slows rendering down for them? Am I doing something wrong, or am I just going to have to live with the extra rendering time if I want more realistic hair?



  • @glossaphile Yes it does slow down render time, but probably not as much as having "Refractive Caustics" selected. I would also drop the filter glossy to 1 and lift the 2 clamps from 1 to 10, or if you are planning to do tone mapping drop them to zero. As has been proved elsewhere the Max Transparent Bounces is not affected by the Max Bounces and for CPU rendering dropping the bucket size to 16 helps speed up rendering (for one thing you are less likely to get stuck with one large bucket rendering only hair.)


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    And yes, this shader is slower. I didn't DESIGN it to be slower, it is designed to be realistic, and the slower aspect came along with that.

    First, anisotropic specular reflections are more math than ordinary specular reflections. Second, I had to use TWO of them.



  • @glossaphile Have you tried this yet? Needs good maps (no highlights or shadows) to look right.
    0_1525107427300_hair.jpg



  • @ghostship That's the problem, so many hair textures have poor colour maps with highlights burnt in, that's why @bagginsbill's shader was so good because not only did it do the specular correctly but it also did a procedural colour map equivalent.



  • @amethystpendant There is no problem. Get a good set of maps. The ones I use come from Zoey Hair by Outoftouch

    https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/zoey-hair-v4-g2f-g3f/111266/

    If the maps go in different directions then just modify your maps in Photoshop or Gimp. Basic Photoshop skills are a must for doing 3d stuff.



  • @ghostship Ah, so you are saying, just use the transmap for the specific hair, fine if there is just one map, if not the hair can end up like thick thread.



  • @amethystpendant No issues if the hair uses multiple trans-maps either. I set up all the hair zones then save the materials to the mats library and I never have to mess with it again.



  • @ghostship said in Does BB's hair shader slow rendering down?:

    @amethystpendant There is no problem. Get a good set of maps. The ones I use come from Zoey Hair by Outoftouch

    https://www.renderosity.com/mod/bcs/zoey-hair-v4-g2f-g3f/111266/

    If the maps go in different directions then just modify your maps in Photoshop or Gimp. Basic Photoshop skills are a must for doing 3d stuff.

    You know, I was going to ask how you would save the setup if you want to use it on multiple hair products, but what you describe here would be easy enough, as I have a couple/three hair texture merchant resources, or any of Biscuits hair products have a ton of textures.

    I would never have thought of doing it that way. I can make one for each of the hair colors I prefer to use. Niiiiiice! ~grin~



  • Thanks, guys! I'll try some of these suggestions for render settings! I figured the extra render time was at least partially an inevitable consequence of the shader's sophistication, but I wanted to make sure it really was inevitable.

    For whatever it's worth, here's the final render. It took almost a whole day, so I'm off to see if I can better optimize render settings. I even used a modified version of the hair shader on the masked eyebrows!

    0_1525135336284_Kumi.jpg

    The basic texture and color is completely procedural, which is one of the most enticing things about this shader. No more worrying about burnt-in shine!



  • @glossaphile Very nice. Her hair looks very realistic. I can almost reach out and touch it.



  • @glossaphile When you say it took almost a whole day to render you mean how long? eight hours? 24 hours? Either way that is too long and you are doing something wrong.



  • @ghostship Well, the render began at about 9:15 PM yesterday and finished at about 8:30 PM today, so yeah, I meant literally just 45 minutes shy of a day.



  • @glossaphile this did not take more than 2 hours on my two cards. If I only had one GPU it would have been 4 hours. The longest render I've had was on my old i5 CPU and that was 11 hours but the image was much larger (1600x2400)
    0_1525136754258_Winter Wonder Ghostship.jpg



  • @glossaphile

    Almost 24 hours is just too much for any kind renderer,I remember few years back I rendered one scene in FireFly where render took me 13 hours and this scene has been my longest render in Poser

    I would try render with less bucket size,128 is just too much for CPU,8 or 16 would be probably much faster and what CPU do you have ? Can you render with GPU as well?

    I use too BB hair shader and this does increase render times but hair itself increase render times,its same with any other renderer which I have used like in Octane(there you can try load Out of Touch products and you will see how yours renders times will tank) or in IRAY or in Cycles etc but usually at 60 samples my render takes me from 45 mins to 1 hour and 15 mins

    Shame SuperFly doesn't offer denoiser feature which is right now available in new Cycles build which hopefully SuperFly will be updated with that feature soon as well

    Hope this helps

    Thanks,Jura



  • @ghostship What are your render settings?



  • @glossaphile When I render I do spot tests to see how many samples I need to get a relatively noise free render. I can't remember how many samples I used for this image but it was probably between 50 and 70 because that is my usual range.
    0_1525148434872_sttings.jpg



  • @glossaphile Also note that this is using GPU. Bucket size for CPU would be 16 or 32.



  • @bagginsbill speed concerns aside, (though not quite off-topic) I'm wondering if parts, if not all of your shader are applicable to dynamic strand hair? I'm looking at the FireFly and SuperFly Hair nodes, and was struggling to adapt the simple colour and diffuse strength inputs of your shader to get similar results with those nodes. I discovered that the diffuse node makes a huge difference to the final colour, but can't simply be plugged into either of the hair nodes when rendering with SuperFly.

    I ended up plugging what goes into your shader's diffuse node into an HSV node's Color input and 6 * Diffuse Strength into the HSV Value input, as a reasonable match for what the Diffuse node does, and then plugging the HSV output into the Cycles HairBSDF node's (using the Transmission component) Color input. I suspect that most of that will be a waste of effort, since the strand hair's UV mapping appears unrelated to the underlying body part's texture.



  • @jura11 said in Does BB's hair shader slow rendering down?:

    @glossaphile

    Almost 24 hours is just too much for any kind renderer,I remember few years back I rendered one scene in FireFly where render took me 13 hours and this scene has been my longest render in Poser

    I would try render with less bucket size,128 is just too much for CPU,8 or 16 would be probably much faster and what CPU do you have ? Can you render with GPU as well?

    I use too BB hair shader and this does increase render times but hair itself increase render times,its same with any other renderer which I have used like in Octane(there you can try load Out of Touch products and you will see how yours renders times will tank) or in IRAY or in Cycles etc but usually at 60 samples my render takes me from 45 mins to 1 hour and 15 mins

    Shame SuperFly doesn't offer denoiser feature which is right now available in new Cycles build which hopefully SuperFly will be updated with that feature soon as well

    Hope this helps

    Thanks,Jura

    Depending on your computer. I have an ancient one, no GPU option (AMD card) and not much RAM. So to me, a render can easily take hours. I usually set one up and go to bed. If I'm lucky it's done when I get up. But I've had renders take far longer. Worst was two days -_-


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