Why Do My Meshes Break?



  • My work flow is creating broken meshes and I don't know how to prevent it. Sometimes they break, and others times not. I've been pretty good at converting DS clothes for Gen1-8 and getting them to fit Legacy figures which I prefer, in Poser. My work flow is in DS load figure with clothing, change the shape with Autofit and the "Wear Them All" add-ons. Export as an obj. In Poser I load the target figure and import the obj. and use the fitting room to make the clothing a conforming figure. Usually works ok.

    Sometimes I use the morphing tool to get it to fit, export the obj and import it back and take it into the fitting room.

    Sometimes I just use the morphing tool and make it dynamic.

    This is a shot of dforce shorts for G8 fit to M4. Look perfect and beautiful on M4 in zero pose but this happens when I pose M4. I mostly used the morphing tool to get them to fit well then took them into fitting room. I tried making them dynamic but the simulation was having none of it.
    0_1525468001347_1ff8247a-50ee-4bf2-8047-98284b964d42-image.png

    When exporting:
    Weld body part seams
    Include body part names in polygon groups

    What am I doing wrong?



  • Bad grouping.



  • @Glitterati3D Thank you for the answer, but it doesn't help me too much. I looked with the grouping tool but it doesn't even recognize the shorts.



  • @shadow_fyre I'm sorry, but I can't help you much. I use Auto Group Editor, not Poser's grouping tool because that tool doesn't do the job AGE does.

    You have an additional issue because M4 has a 2 polygon hip through the crotch and Poser does not know how to group like that. Even AGE can't do that group without manual manipulation because, quite frankly, the Generation4 hip groups all suck like that.

    Thank goodness, the newer models have moved away from that awful Gen4 grouping.

    I also cannot help you with anything DS as I do not use it. At all.



  • @Glitterati3D Thank you, that does help a lot more knowing the hip problem. Come to think of it, all my breaks occur in the crotch region of the clothes.
    If I liked DS then I wouldn't have these problems, but I'm always trying to figure out ways to use DS figures and items in Poser. DSON doesn't always work.



  • @shadow_fyre You're welcome. Sorry, I could be more help. But, if you look closely, even the converters like Crossdresser can't group the Gen4 hip correctly - even those conversions break there.


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    @shadow_fyre

    The problem and cure is pretty simple :
    Never - ever export a rigged mesh from Poser. => It unwelds the vertex groups. (Regardless of the selected export options) => While some of these exports options can be used on unrigged obj files, they always fail on rigged obj files.

    My Video1 in the Poser2Blender2Poser series on YouTube shows what you can or can not export from Poser.

    Never use the Poser group editor, and never use the autogroup function in the fitting room but always create your vertex groups externally and point the cr2 to that properly vertex grouped obj file.

    Then goto Video4 in the same series about why you have to delete Poser saved meshes. => That video explains it all.

    Best regards, Tony



  • If these shorts are original dForce items yoiu best deal with them in the cloth room.
    The fitting room is geared towards weight mapped figures, of course, and M4 predates weight mapping.
    Best do your grouping before going to fitting room.
    Use the cloth room to generate a geometry that you can use to creatre a morph of the short with the legs of the shorts well separated. With the short in that morph you can do the grouping to tell the pant leg vertices in the crotch which leg to follow, and to ensure there is a hip group forming a 'slip', so Poser knows where to weld.
    I do not know DS, but it may be worth while to see if you can export the geometry of the 'legs wide' morph from DS.


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    @fverbaas
    Correct; Do the "fit to figure, and Create the vertex groups externally before going into the fitting room.
    Then do the fitting in the fitting room but ONLY to transfer the rigging (do NOT do any fitting any more here, but only transfer the bones), save to library, open your file manager, delete the obj file poser just saved for you, and point the cr2 to the properly welded obj file.



  • @vilters She exported the object file from DS not from Poser, so none of that applies to this object file.

    What is happening inside Poser is that the hip group is so small, autogrouping in Poser actually puts some of the left thigh polygons in the right thigh group and the same on the left. That breakage is because some of the left thigh is moving with the right thigh. And, on top of that, there is no hip group at all in that area of the crotch.


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    @Glitterati3D
    Aj, and Poser needs a full hip group to prevent weld cracking. :-(

    Then take the obj into Blender (or equivalent) and vertex group and weld it properly.



  • Thanks for all this new info. I'll see what I can do, I get confused with all these terms modelers would use but I do like learning new things that have to do with Poser. Still learning after 18 years.



  • @Glitterati3D said in Why Do My Meshes Break?:

    I'm sorry, but I can't help you much. I use Auto Group Editor, not Poser's grouping tool because that tool doesn't do the job AGE does.

    Could I use this and get the results I'm after?


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  • @Ghostman Is there a video tutorial for that?


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    @eclark1849
    There are many tools to properly vertex group and weld obj files.
    What is always lacking in these tutorials is the "fix" to repair the unwelded obj file AFTER it was rigged, saved to library, and reloaded in Poser.



  • @vilters would it be sufficiently useful to have a Python script which can merge any grouping done in Poser's grouping tool back into the original, un-vertex-duplicated obj file? Under a different file name, of course, to preserve the original object. I have made some progress in preserving vertex order and identifying weld-duplicated vertices in the internal geometry in Poser.


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    @anomalaus
    A script that returns the obj to the original vertex order? Good idea.

    Ok, and when should it run?
    At save to library?
    At re-import?
    At what time change both path in the cr2 to point to the "cured" obj file?

    Any vertex grouping, no matter how good it is, no matter from where it comes (grouping tool, autogroup tool, setup-room, fitting room, or externally)=> As soon as the obj gets a rig and gets saved to library, it is split into separate vertex groups and has the double vertex at all welds. => that is Video 4 in my Poser2Blender2Poser series on youtube

    Multiple cures are possible:
    a) delete the Poser saved obj file and replace it by the original obj file.
    b) edit the cr2 and change both paths to point to the original obj file.
    c) repair the Poser saved obj file externally before next reload.

    If you make a script, it should run after the save to library, remove all double vertex and reweld properly, resave a "fixed" obj file, and change both paths in the cr2 to the "fixed" obj file.