Are we getting left behind?



  • @fverbaas That's kind of my point.

    Conforming clothing creators are adding hems and pipings, and seams, and all those other details that make clothing look more realistic, while the dynamic clothing creators mostly seem content to just model a thin mesh in the appropriate shape. And as a result, it doesn't look like clothing, but more like the character is sheathed in wrapping paper.



  • @tastiger said in Are we getting left behind?:

    @eclark1849 said in Are we getting left behind?:

    My biggest problem with people who complain about being left behind is mainly that what they're complaining about often isn't the features, but the figures. Also what features they DO complain about they often don't even use and probably haven't even tried them yet. Quick show of hands... how many people who are complaining about being left behind have even tried to use Bullet physics more than once? How often do you even use the cloth room or did you try it once or twice when it first came out, couldn't get it to work for you and stopped? I bitch and moan about the hair room but at least I have given it a fair shake. It's just tedious and boring.

    Yes I have used the cloth room since it first appeared in Poser 5, my complaint isn't with the cloth room it is with content, only a few creators stuck their necks out and made dynamic clothing, everyone else stuck with last century's offering of conforming clothing and when you are working with animation, dynamic clothing helps a lot.

    I'm going to debunk that statement here and now. That is the very reason I created my vendor directory.

    Here's a list of vendors who have made and still make dynamic clothing for Poser. And I'm pretty sure I didn't get them all.
    http://www.3dcontentdirectory.com/directory/Clothing.html



  • @modus0 said in Are we getting left behind?:

    My issue with regard to dynamic clothing is one of thickness.

    Taking from the images amethystpendant posted, look closely at the straps and top of the dress in the first image. Or the 3rd image, the cape dress.

    Notice how thin the fabric looks?

    Yep, I agree, and I have made lots of dynamics with "thickness", usually double sided, the clothroom wasn't designed to do that but as I use it so often I know what I need to do to get it to work, which can mean a little post work pushing linings back etc and finding the cloth-cloth force setting that isn't exposed in the GUI has really made that a possibility. Most Conforming cloth cheat on the hem by having a small part bent over, which is a problem for the cloth room as it tends to fall out :). If I need to have the appearance of thickness I will sometimes run the cloth room then export the simed prop and add thickness in blender and re-import. It takes me a few minutes but most people wouldn't be comfortable doing that.

    Amanda



  • @eclark1849 said in Are we getting left behind?:

    Here's a list of vendors who have made and still make dynamic clothing for Poser. And I'm pretty sure I didn't get them all.
    http://www.3dcontentdirectory.com/directory/Clothing.html

    You certainly didn't add me, although I do only do free stuff so I suppose I'm not a vendor :)



  • @amethystpendant said in Are we getting left behind?:

    @eclark1849 said in Are we getting left behind?:

    Here's a list of vendors who have made and still make dynamic clothing for Poser. And I'm pretty sure I didn't get them all.
    http://www.3dcontentdirectory.com/directory/Clothing.html

    You certainly didn't add me, although I do only do free stuff so I suppose I'm not a vendor :)

    I need a link to find your stuff. I know a lot of creators don't like being in a store, but it does make them easier to find.



  • @amethystpendant Doublesided cloth meshes is a waste of polygons and makes a bunch of trouble.I do what you call 'cheating' for years without any trouble. Fast and without any problems if you do it right.



  • Summer dress for Roxie I'm working on. Just a simple shader, no displacement. But hems defined as materialzones and with different dynamic parameters (hems are stronger and stiffer then the rest).
    0_1529323572607_Dress D.png



  • @adp Yes I've done it that way too, usually doubling the stiffness (bothy types of bend) Another good way of keeping them folded is to reverse the normals of the underturned part.

    BTW nice looking dress



  • @amethystpendant Simply define the fold as 'Soft Decorated Group' and you are done.



  • @amethystpendant More explanation: I use 2 Materialgroups. One defines the inner (invisible) part, the other one is the outer part. The inner part is soft decorated (no dynamic parameters), the outer part is a standard dynamic group set as 'hard'.
    In the shader I made the fabric a bit transparent, but not the border.



  • @adp Soft decorated doesn't always work, especially if the main part is under stress, but it is definitely an option :)



  • @amethystpendant At least with Poser 10/11 I didn't have problems with any of my cloth pieces. And, believe me, they have a lot of 'stress' :)



  • @eclark1849 said in Are we getting left behind?:

    I'm going to debunk that statement here and now. That is the very reason I created my vendor directory.

    Here's a list of vendors who have made and still make dynamic clothing for Poser. And I'm pretty sure I didn't get them all.
    http://www.3dcontentdirectory.com/directory/Clothing.html

    It is good that you have gone to such an effort in creating the lists, however, a look at the lists only confirms what myself and others have said - Look how many create conforming clothing compared to those who create dynamic.



  • BTW this was my other cape dress, which does show "thickness"

    alt text

    As does this

    alt text



  • Oh, and this

    alt text

    Sculpted hem

    alt text

    And double layer

    alt text

    and this

    alt text



  • @amethystpendant And this is a stress-test :)
    0_1529376202765_Dress H.png



  • @adp the stress test looks good, it's good to see some people experimenting and does show exactly what can be done in the cloth room, when one puts in a bit of an effort.



  • @tastiger said in Are we getting left behind?:

    @adp the stress test looks good, it's good to see some people experimenting and does show exactly what can be done in the cloth room, when one puts in a bit of an effort.

    A bit of a lot of effort in case of animations. I'm living proof - a 11 seconds animation took me 12-14 hours to prepare, it only had one stupid blanket (just a plain rectangle with no frills of any kind) and I spent some 70-80% of my time adjusting the freaking cloth animation to get it under control.

    Cloth animations may be ok in Poser for the pin up render, but are a terrible time consumer for animations. I pretty much gave up on them, and nowadays I just use morphs from the morphing tool to simulate flows - have much better control too, that way.



  • @fbs7 What I did with this dress above is an animation and not just a render. Just 60 frames long, because there is not so much movement.
    In a first step I let the Dress settle to have the exact point where the hand has to grab the cloth (3-4 minutes). In frame 35 I positioned the hands startpoint (another 5 Minutes). At frame 50 the endpoint (3 Minutes). Anything else did Poser (10 Minutes?).
    Yes, dynamic cloth needs a bit time per frame.

    If you try to do the same with the dress just with morphing, you surly will need 10 times as long.



  • @adp said in Are we getting left behind?:

    @fbs7 What I did with this dress above is an animation and not just a render. Just 60 frames long, because there is not so much movement.

    I think that is why a lot of people have shied away from the cloth room, not realizing that you do have to make an animation in order to get the best out the cloth, I think many may have loaded the figure, loaded the cloth, at about frame 50 pose the figure and then run the simulation - sometimes that works, but I agree a little bit more work needs to be put in to get the cloth to settle really well and to achieve the end goal you are looking for.