Vendor Tales...


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @Miss-B The problem is not that they wait for sales. Sales we had in the past too. But even with huge sales the Poser user did not buy and when they buy than when it is in clearance. They want extra textures, extra morphs, camera settings for the environments and light settings. In Poser firefly and for Superfly. But don't want to pay more than $ 10. This can not work.
    My free outfit for PE. To sort out the textures and shaders for both render engines cost me 2 weeks extra. Modeling, rigging , create the textures, thumbnails, readme and tutorial,testing . What would be here an proper price?16-20 $? No one Poser user would pay this. This is fact.



  • @eclark1849

    I can think of a number of things.

    1. Fix the OBJ export so that it exports an OBJ file that has the same vertex count and same winding order as the original OBJ you used to create the content in the first place. This would probably require saving the OBJ information somewhere before it is split apart during CR2 creation.

    2. Poser really needs to work with "real world" scale. The extremely small scale Poser uses results in rounding errors that cause OBJ's to go out of symmetry, due to translation and rotation shifts. After creating a CR2, the figure's right side (your left) shifts and rotates slightly, making it extremely difficult to get symmetry back for parts that don't have a center axis (like eyes, lashes, fingernails, toenails, and teeth). This happens when an OBJ file is used to create a CR2. To prove this, import a grouped OBJ file into Poser. Immediately export it again (as a prop) and check the symmetry. Seems to be OK. But now, convert that prop to a figure in the usual manner. Export that OBJ. No longer symmetrical.

    3. Provide figures WITH POSER that will entice people to create content for them. This means, figures that look decent, morph decent, and pose decent right out of the box. With third party figures, it's hard to know how many people have that figure and content creators may end up with only a small number of sales of their supporting content. On the other hand, if the figures are provided with Poser, the content creators know that everyone who upgraded to that version of Poser has the figures. If the figures that come with Poser are top grade out of the box, they will probably be supported better.

    I could go on. But these are my top three.



  • You aren’t the only one.

    I have commissioned clothing, I have dropped $150 a month on average since Dec 2004 (I am close to the $25,000 marker.)

    What I buy has changed. Vendors don’t want to make content for non-Daz figures, so I am buying props, sets, and merchant resources. I would prefer to buy content for non-Daz figures, but I can’t make a vendor make the content.

    Vendors over the past decade have made it clear that they are only interested in making hookerware and impractical armor - and they have told potential customers that if they don’t want to buy what they are personally interested in making, we should learn to make our own content.

    And here we are. Everyone that isn’t a rank beginner takes their M4V4 content into the fitting room and voila! No need to buy new clothing.

    I buy g figure content to fill spaces that aren’t being addressed. If I need kids, I’m either buying g content or I am using Luke/Laura or the millennium kids. If I need more than a couple non-Caucasians, I am buying g content, because over 95% of all figures sold are early 20’s Caucasians.

    When I do buy content, I also calculate how much time it will take me to make a product Poser 9+ compliant. More work I have to do, the less I am willing to pay.

    Want me to pay Stonemason prices for your product? Make it that well, and make it Poser 9+ compliant, not Poser 6 ready, regardless of the base mesh.

    Let me reiterate - I would prefer to buy clothing content made for non-Daz figures, but when the vendors decline to do so, my money is spent on other things.



  • @Ladonna said in Vendor Tales...:

    Ladonna, I will say this... The most expensive thing I ever bought at DAZ, aside from Poser 7, was Victoria 2 upgrade. As far as I can recall, I never spent more than $12 for any ONE single product. I think one thing, vendors need to keep in mind, is that if you're NOT a vendor, this is mostly a hobby for many of the users. $20 is a luxury. I don't even go to the movies any more, and if I did, $20 would be cheap by comparison.



  • @eclark1849 All fine and dandy, Earl. But, based on that price point are you willing to accept ONE texture, no morphs and a single clothing item? No shoes, no jewelry included, one set of textures and no morphs.

    In order to get an ROI on modeling, texturing and rigging, AND sell for $10.00 that's all you're gonna get.



  • @Glitterati3D said in Vendor Tales...:

    @eclark1849 All fine and dandy, Earl. But, based on that price point are you willing to accept ONE texture, no morphs and a single clothing item? No shoes, no jewelry included, one set of textures and no morphs.

    In order to get an ROI on modeling, texturing and rigging, AND sell for $10.00 that's all you're gonna get.

    Truth? It depends on what bills I have to pay that month. If it's something i really want or need, I might sacrifice. Otherwise it'll have to wait.



  • @eclark1849 So, the vendor's bills take 2nd fiddle to yours.

    Based on $10.00, the vendor will get $6.00 of that $10.00, before any coupons or other gimmicks that reduce the price. Assuming, you purchase anytime other than the initial offering where it's 30% right off the top to begin with.

    Most sales, a vendor is lucky to see $3.00 of a $10.00 item.



  • @Glitterati3D said in Vendor Tales...:

    @eclark1849 So, the vendor's bills take 2nd fiddle to yours.

    Umm, yeah.



  • @Glitterati3D said in Vendor Tales...:

    So, the vendor's bills take 2nd fiddle to yours.

    Well, in my book, that's called survival. When it comes between a choice of buying content, or buying groceries, I'd choose the groceries. ;-)



  • @Deecey As do I which is why I am no longer a vendor. I'm done investing in hundreds of dollars worth of tools to create content no one is willing to pay for.



  • @Glitterati3D

    I hear ya, girl. I hear ya.

    I spent more on fabrics to scan than I've made on the Fabric Frenzy merchant resources. And those are merchant resources!

    Good gawd.



  • @Deecey I know. And it's just soooooooo sad.

    But I bought every single set. Not that it means much, but I did.

    I use them constantly and make sure I credit your great materials when I do.



  • @Glitterati3D said in Vendor Tales...:

    @Deecey As do I which is why I am no longer a vendor. I'm done investing in hundreds of dollars worth of tools to create content no one is willing to pay for.

    Tracy, I'm not out to cheat anybody. As I said, this is a hobby for me. Now, if I were in a business or something and making money off what I buy and use, then yeah, I could afford to pay more. Even Turbosquid money.



  • @Glitterati3D

    Hugs atcha! Thank you 8-D



  • I have made this recommendation before, but I’ll make it again....

    A kickstarter type of setup for content. This way a vendor knows they will see a profit before they start on something.



  • Heh, I have a ways to go, but I'm hoping I can get good enough one day to sell something at Turbosquid. :)


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Yes, the best thing to do to manage the time/price ratio, is to make products with less options.

    That's the clever thing to do...

    ...However when my muse is on a roll..she is on a roll and my wise beta needs to tell me 3 times, STOP ALREADY YOU HAVE ENOUGH OPTIONS before I finish adding options. lol

    You need to make 1 hair not 20 in 1! Leave some ideas for next time!

    How about 5 in 1 then? :P

    Very difficult for me. lol


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @ssgbryan Patreon is ideal for 3D content for that!


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @Biscuits I thought about too Biscuits. I already set up an account and thought to release there my "freebies" where people can contribute from $1 At last a bit motivation to create more freebies :)



  • I agree with a lot of the points above. I hear them every day.

    One point I would like to add though, is that SM and DAZ are not the only marketplaces for Poser compatible product. Yes eclark 1849 has a directory. It is Poser centric and a lot of Poser users have moved beyond it.

    As Miss b says; a lot of us have grown older and have less disposable income to blow on a hobby that does not make us, users; an income. Just an outgo of our limited income on pretty pictures.

    As Vilter said in most every thread. Roll your own. So now a lot of us have. We use free modeling software to make things UVed in a free mapper and texture it in free photopaint software. We didn't know how but the nonexistent cost of entry got us to try. A lot of us have succeeded. We can do simple box modeling and make basic textures. This has liberated our checkbooks to some extent.

    Deecey is correct in regard to scale and the breaking of OBJs. These two things slow down the do it yourself crowd, but the amount of threads regarding this and the ways around it are now well known to most Poser users.

    ssgbryan is correct in pointing out that the vendors themselves have said, and are saying now; that if you don't like what they make go elsewhere or do it yourself. It's too much work to make something that won't sell a few hundred units in the first two weeks before the pirates get it and post their hard work on line for anyone to get for free.

    Ladonna is correct in that the larger markets take a big chunk of the sale and local governments want their fair share of your hard work and income. This leaves little for the person who did all the work and there is no point unless you have a lot of sales of a given item.

    Everyone who vends wants the super duper boss hog of characters that everyone will drool over and beg to buy content for. If that character comes along every vendor will be rich because they can sell new conforming clothing.

    That is the problem. It's not a P6 compatible workflow with P4 textures that people want to spend their hard earned cash on. I hear vendors complain about a figures rigging and/or the person/company that foisted this crap on the market thus ruining their income all the time. I hear vendors cry that the only clothes being made are dynamic because no one can make a JCM laden outfit to conform to whatever figure Poser hobbyists are using at the time. The complaints of refitted clothing appearing each iteration of a figure. That the vendors are just reworking stuff for a new rig.

    Dynamic cloth decouples an item of clothing from a rig. Cuts into vendor sales. So does the Fitting Room. A Poser user that has just purchased the software will happily use the toys provided. The official vids from SM, that a large number of new users would be likely to check out; feature ways to use Poser irregardless as to where you buy your content.

    Poser's import options allow for a huge amount of content, not purchased at DAZ, Rendo, or SM to be easily imported and used. The only thing that vendors have going for them is that they know how to rig. That is not much. Hard surface rigging is quite simple once a user tries it a few times. Organic not so easy.

    Hobbyists have time to fool around and make mistakes. It costs them nothing. Vendors need a return on time and software investment. They can't make one offs or specialty items and make a living from them. They need to sell stuff users cannot easily make or appears too hard to attempt. Stuff that will not make them money.

    Poser hobbyists have become liberated from the old school vendors and their workflow. They have been given the tools in the software to do much of what vendors have had to do in the past. They have been told for so long to just wait for the newest most high tech figure by the vendors and then their content will come back; that they have found new skills and new markets outside the traditional marketplaces the old school vendors are still trying to move their product in.

    Clothing rigs and character skins are all that is left for vendors to earn from. "Content is king." and we have begun to make our own. Make what we cannot, make product that can be used by more than one software with little more than scale changes and maybe you will earn a closed environment living once again. A vendors options are starting to become a little limited and the strict adherence to "the old ways" is not going to help earn a living in a world where game engines and real time rendering are happening with content that comes in large themed releases.