Vendor Tales...

  • @meshbox Well, there's one thing I know for certain..........IF I ever offer Poser products again (and that's unlikely) it won't be through a brokerage.

    I will use my own independent website or simply refrain.

  • Poser Ambassadors

    @Glitterati3D Stacey, I think you need a bit time out. I understand your frustration. I was like this after RDNA close over night.
    We just release 2-3 days before the Maison abandonne .Because maximum frustration about how this whole stuff was done, we clink out for more than 2 years.
    Slowly coming back .

  • @Ladonna Actually, no, it's a lot more than that, Ladonna. Yes, the brokerages do nothing for the vendors like Meshbox says. But, the issue is much more about Poser customers who have repeatedly said they want V4 and their V4 runtimes. More power to them, have at it. Enjoy V4.

    I have zero intention of ever modeling anything for V4 with her horrendous rigging ever again.

    As long as that's what customers want, there is no place for vendors - the market for V4 has been saturated for years.

  • Poser Ambassadors

    @Glitterati3D Agree with V4. I did not use her anymore too.
    But Dawn, Bella, PE are here. They need poses, outfit, jewels. Maybe the Poser market shrink, but I think there are still enough people out who want to buy new stuff for the girls.
    Think about, without Daz amazing vendors, Genesis would not be so successful.
    It is up on us to support Poser and all the vendors who made a hell job and develop those figures like PE,Dawn, Bella.
    Commercial content, or freebie, Outfits, poses or just props, environments. Does not matter what, but support .
    Scripts, anything goes.
    Are you good in sculpting Tracey?

  • @Ladonna Not interested, Ladonna. Thanks, but no thanks.

  • Poser Ambassadors

    @Glitterati3D Very sad to see you go away.

  • @Ladonna said in Vendor Tales...:

    @Glitterati3D Very sad to see you go away.

    It is sad, but Traci's obviously burnt out, and just has no more enthusiasm for vending. Can't say I blame her too much. But that is why I started this thread. For vendors to commiserate and talk about ideas which they feel could work in increasing their sales. They have to believe in those ideas though..

  • @eclark1849 I'm just done being beat up by all sides, Earl.

    Folks like ssgbryan come on the forums and call us every name in the book. Treat us like scum of the earth.

    Tony Vilters, a Poser Ambassador no less, has beaten up on vendors for years with has anti-vendor, anti-Poser charade.

    And the brokerage house do what's good for THEM and the hell with the vendors.

    Other vendors can't wait to get behind closed doors and snipe about vendors, models and everyone else.

    Tell me again why I beat my head against a brick wall every day?

  • Poser Ambassadors

    @Glitterati3D Tracey, those a just a handful .Ignore them. Make some freebies, or just art.
    I discover for my self photography as relaxing part. Th sunrise , nature, i feel after like newborn.
    Make some art, just for fun, no promos. Relax. :)

  • @Ladonna They make up what's left of the Poser "community."

    I contacted SM about setting up a vendor account for some Bella stuff, and they got right on that request with THIS:

    **Thank you for your inquiry - - you noted an interest for Poser. How can I help you?

    For a quote, I’ll need to know the exact version of the applications and the number of licenses you plant to install. To purchase, I can accept a CC, or PayPal transaction. Let me know which method you would like to use and I’ll make sure it all goes smoothly.

    Any questions? Are you ready to purchase?**

    They wanted to know how many copies of Poser I wanted to buy.

    When I reiterated that I wanted to set up a vendor account, they went silent. Last April.

  • Poser Ambassadors

    This post is deleted!

  • Vendor stories...

    Tying in to the current conversation: isn't it at this point where one must ask oneself why we do the things we do?

    Volumes can be written about the tumultuous world that Poser and now DAZ Studio has created (as you can see below), but both these apps have also created volumes of awesome works. The problem is the humans behind the software, they can get a little too passionate about it, and might not entirely be aware of how big of a world they are living in. So much so that their response might be entirely disproportionate to the actual relevance of the thing they're concerned about. But that's quite uniquely human isn't it? This is just a tiny TINY part of the world that is CGI.

    Sometimes I wonder what the hell I was thinking setting off so arrogantly on making PE, and I've endured the deepest most pessimistic moments getting here, I cannot say I'm out of the woods, but I can tell you that I am soooooooooo humbled by artists and vendors, that have persevered regardless, on a set of vertices that originated from MY computers, pieces of crap HP office machines, and have made PE their own, all because they want to make art with it. That is why we do this. I can guarantee you, if you've ever released a V4 item before, some poor sod out there is probably enjoying it thoroughly. I have props in my runtime that I've used frequently, with great pleasure, and now I'm friends with the vendor that made it. I never knew!

    One of the toughest things is to endure the crap you get from people that don't understand what you go though to make stuff like this, which is why I really did appreciate @Deecey kicking my ass when I dragged the Poser team through the mud that time, I've battled you before @Glitterati3D , but that's ok, you're like me, passionate, but this is why we also need to basically grow a thicker skin. We're all crazy passionate here. But building that thicker skin is NOT easy, is it?, and it just might not work for some of us. I am a comic artist firstly, and I need to have a very intimate relationship with my fans for that to work, so growing a thicker skin is entirely counter-intuitive for me, which is why I can only do so much in this field with PE.

    But yeah, if you enter into this field, its a weird one. There's so much passion flowing through these forums its crazy... and too much... but that's not so strange. Its the passion of artists trying to break free, of not being able to make content themselves, or artists that want their content to be used...

    Poser and DAZ Studio have created a new type of artist: the one that is dependent on 3D content to make their art. Some more so than others, and some less so. Now I don't see myself as dependent on content, for I can make it all myself if I need to, but hey, if its there, why not use it? Saves you time, you support a vendor.

    Now, straight off, there's nothing essentially wrong with being dependent on other people's content, except when things get obsessive. Passions get very heated in the forums, and I think I know why.

    If I was dependent on content, I could see myself also getting super frustrated. Imagine artist X, a he, has a vivid imagination but not the experience to model stuff himself, being left hanging with his vivid imagination while people that HAVE the experience are just flaunting their sh!t must be tormenting, while all you wanna do is the same, but those bastards are not helping you lol. Those selfish bastards with their skills! THIS HAPPENS. And I think I know why.

    In 2010-2011 I did a bunch of wildlife photography, and its almost comparable to this. The camera is Poser, the content = that rhino, the content creator=fate/nature. You can have all the skills and imagination in the world, but if that f*cking rhino doesn't show, or if you cannot find it after tracking it on all fours through the thorn bushes (true story), or if its obscured by a big fat shrub (also true story), you're not getting that amazing photo. Period. Same with being a typical Poser/DS artist, if the content is NOT there, or if the content is there but partially obscured by bad materials, you're not getting that amazing render.

    Now the difference here is that you cannot get frustrated by that rhino. Its an animal, it has its own plans. You cannot expect it to step out and pose for you can you. You can argue with them: "hey we're trying to save your ass here, don't be selfish and show it". That's unrealistic and absurd.

    BUT, what about content artists? The people that make the content! they're human, they speak your language, and you've brought their products before. Hey, bastard, with your skills, I paid for your sh!t before, now I expect more.

    And that's where I have a problem. No doubt a lot of you too.

    I see myself as that Rhino, just passing by, I was making comics when suddenly some guy pops up from behind a bush and says, wow, what is that? Why that's Lali's ass. I want it! I was like, ok then. And then I tumbled down this rabbit hole of temptation, being tempted to help people, to impress people, to get a name, a reputation. Its very tempting, you really really mean well and you really do want to help... but you'll soon discover is an insatiable abyss. And you need to know what you're doing before you get there. It never ends, and people get pissed if you fail at helping them. You need to develop an ecosystem of sanity around you to keep your head straight or you'll go insane. With so many people with so many ideas, wants, wills and needs, who are we to impress any kind of idea on them? You need to be one stubborn idiot to do that.

    Enter Erogenesis...

    Ok well I suck at this just as much as the rest. Its tough. But I have a team of fanatics kicking my ass. I call them 'Kamp Holland' and there's a Swede involved in that too somewhere. But I was just talking to that Swede, and he reminded me of what its all about:

    I was a comic artist in 2012 and I needed a good figure. I did what I had to do make my comic awesome. It started off with V4. Many of my friends really wanted it. And the ones that got it and loved it, made it their own, made the effort totally worth it. Now its PE.

    Again, seeing people make a render of PE laughing ( @Y-Phil, @kalypso, and many more), or making clothes and things for the naked girl ( @Ladonna, @karanta, @Biscuits...), etc , makes it worth it. But don't forget yourself too. I'm happy I completed the project, but I'm going back to comics. That's what PE was actually made for, telling stories (yep @eclark1849 ).

    Remember why you got into it. Don't let the rabbit hole fool you. Stand your ground, but don't be an idiot. If it gets too shaky, save your ass and get out! You're still alive, this is all just make-believe on computers.

  • btw earl, I appreciate you trying to bring the community together like this, and all your other efforts. Awesome. Watch out for yourself too, the rabbit hole accepts everyone.

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    @erogenesis So true words Ero. I was by my self in this rabbit hole. Frustrated, angry. Don't even want to open any 3D App.
    So I give my self a time out to sort out ideas, thoughts .Need a while, but slowly I come back.
    The most important is, never give up on your self.

  • @Ladonna said in Vendor Tales...:

    @erogenesis So true words Ero. I was by my self in this rabbit hole. Frustrated, angry. Don't even want to open any 3D App.
    So I give my self a time out to sort out ideas, thoughts .Need a while, but slowly I come back.
    The most important is, never give up on your self.

    Absolutely. I also give myself lots of time-out, like playing games or just not switching on my computers at all. I have loads of books and notepads and sometimes just lie on bed writing stories. The other day I invented a language while waiting for my girlfriend at a doctor's appointment. We used to be just as creative before computers came along, we can still be like that with computers around, while not using them.

    But yeah, never forget yourself and why you chose to do something, sometimes you have to stop yourself from being tempted again and again, and go back to the thing that you originally wanted to do. Its very very easy to get side-tracked with all the possibilities CGI has to offer, and all the ideas people come up with. The moment people realise that you have a certain skill, they approach you immediately with ideas, which is great at first, but gets too much after a while. I remember I showed that I was able to write scripts, and the very next day I had two emails from people asking me for help to solve their scripting issues lol! No joke! Its flattering, but it gets a little much. The news that PE is nearly done has inspired lots of people to email me again and come with new ideas for me to do... but I have to stop it there. That is the rabbit hole I'm talking about. I want to make comics again lol. And it very worrying to see that some folks base their efforts on what I'm doing, which is such an alien concept for me. I never cared one bit for V4's market value, or what DAZ was doing at the time, when I totally re-rigged and tweaked V4 to my own liking. What does DAZ ever have to do with my comics? I had my own plans! That is why I really do appreciate that you're making your OWN plan and that you've persisted without me. PE is in your toolbox now, its your device to put to work, and you, as well as several others, have seemed to really understand that.

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    @erogenesis I create art since I can hold a pen and brushes. My very first painting in oil was a lesson I never forget in my live. I over paint a oil painting we had on the wall , with some trees . My parents did not find this idea so great .Lesson number one, never modify others people artwork lol . Was a painful lesson.
    However, since this I am obsessed with art. Any kind of. And this is why i never give up on it. Not 3d not 2d and not real painting in oil.
    Sometimes I take my dogs, go out on a lake with my sketch book and draw till the sun goes down. Clear the head and watch the nature clear your soul.
    At the end we are here all artists. This is why we are sometimes obsessed and easy to hurt. Our art means to us something very special. It is a part of us,which we share with others. This makes you vulnerable .
    In this case the best ting to do is , Time out and let grass growing over it.