Portugal... hmm...

  • I understand Smith Micro closed graphics software development in the US and has a new team in Portugal.

    Hmm.. really? I have nothing against Portugal (I have Portuguese/Spanish ancestors myself, and I love Portuguese cod and Portuguese wine; I visited the country 4 times), and while Portugal has a respected tradition in several areas (University of Coimbra founded in 1290!!), advanced graphical software development is not exactly one of the nation's strengths. Plus, the population is only 10 million people, and only 15% of the population has high school diploma, not to tell college graduation. For comparison the US alone graduates some 5 million people per year from colleges.

    I can't really make heads or tails of SM's decision. If I were to outsource development, I'd look first at South Korea, which has incredibly strong initiatives in graphics. Just look at those beautiful RPGs developed in South Korea, like Black Desert Online - they are launched one after the other, very swiftly and very impressively, which would indicate a large work force in the area. This is exactly in the 3D graphics realm of Poser.

    Then I'd look at India. India is a marvel for software development (thanks to free higher education for all), total graduation rate from college is more than 20 million per year, and there are many tech companies growing in India. Several large tech companies have development center to India -- including mine, I work with several programmers in India (Bangalore and Chennai), and they are very capable people.

    And there are several more - Eastern Europe, Canada, China, Russia. So, I don't get the decision relocate 3D graphics development to Portugal.

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    I don't think it matters in what country they moved the dev team to. There is capable people everywhere, and they are not defined by where they were born.

    South Korea has plenty of CG companies, mostly because Japanese animation studios were too expensive, so they moved many of them to Korea to cut the costs. This means artists and animators, not necessarily programmers.

    Conversely, India has indeed become the technological center for IT. Many Indians went to work in the US IT industry, and thanks to the broken immigration system, they were forced to return to India, but with plenty of new hands-on experience. They started training centers in India where those who returned from the US started to train others, who then trained others, creating a considerable IT working force in India. We can say that the US has unintentionally created a mighty competitor for itself. In no time, American companies started to offshore labor to India (much cheaper), which has consolidated their position in the IT industry.

    Therefore India could be the place for this, but on the other hand, I have heard of numerous problems dealing with them because of communication issues and cultural differences. It's not all wine and roses.

    Either way, we will soon find out what to expect from the Braga team in Portugal. It will be hard in the beginning, and I wonder how long until they get into gear with Poser coding. It's a very large application if you think of it. Most people don't use a fraction of the features, but they are all in there.

  • That's true, a person's capability is not related to where they are born.

    But the feasibility of a company does depend on the size of the available work force, and how experienced that work force is with that job type.

    If Portugal had such available work force in numbers for this kind of work, then other companies would have moved there - yet I don't know of a single 3D software company based in or moved to Portugal. That's why I don't get it.

    We'll see; Poser 12 will tell it.

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    @fbs7 I see here no problem.We have here in France many, many people from Portugal. They are not more stupid than the rest of the Europ. people. Portugal is a beautiful country with amazing people. Sadly very poor. All they need is a chance.
    And SMS give them the chance. Nothing wrong with that. And because till now nobody moves his company there in CG art, it does not mean that this is wrong to do so. Somebody has to make the first step.

  • People good at CG are everywhere. If there is little competition in an area this means you can atttract the best ones.

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    @fverbaas True. What I remark, people from the US get often irritated when other countries get involved in new tech. or like here 3D Software.
    Why is this so? The US has many, many people in this area from all over the world and the reason is simple.The conditions in Europe for a new Start up are very difficult because strong EU laws and high Tax rates.
    So many Start up's move to the US, Canada or Australia.
    But this does not mean that Europe is far behind US with new technology . Trust me, we are out of our caves and have even fire for to cook our food.

  • @fbs7 said in Portugal... hmm...:

    only 15% of the population has high school diploma, not to tell college graduation.

    Without going into the details, one has to take into account that there is a lot of lag in education figures if you go by "the population". If you look at 20-40 year olds, you'll find the situation is very different.

  • There is nothing wrong with Portugal. Several years ago i made a research for a company regarding out sourcing of software development. We had put together a very long list of criteria and after weighting them all in Portugal was one of out top candidates.

  • When the news came about the Portugal move I looked up some comparison site giving comparitive figures for countries for typical cost of labour for staff with given qualifications.
    It did explain a lot.
    Remember also that you best compare EU nations with states in the US.

  • @fverbaas said in Portugal... hmm...:

    When the news came about the Portugal move I looked up some comparison site giving comparitive figures for countries for typical cost of labour for staff with given qualifications.
    It did explain a lot.
    Remember also that you best compare EU nations with states in the US.

    Okay, I'm not defending the move, or the resructuring, but pointing out a couple of things in the comparison. Skillsets and abilities being pretty much exactly equal in comparison, a worker in the US will almost always cost more than a worker anywhere else in the world. Especially if the worker being replaced lives in the state of California.

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    @eclark1849 Come to France, watch and see the difference. France is expensive like hell. Thats why our industry fly away.
    Portugal cost less, which does not mean that people have less skills. They are the same good or bad like the rest of Europe.

  • It has nothing to do with the size of the population :)

    In Denmark, we're a mere 5 million people. We're not stupid, just because there's few of us. I dunno the figures of high school education here, but I would think it's pretty high. Just remember that the rest of the world don't necessarily has the same system of "schools" - in Denmark you have 9-10 years of "primary school", then 2-3 years of "high school" and then university (if that's the route you take) - you might also go directly to some other sort of educatioon, like a graphics education, right from "Primary School". The lack of a "High School" education doesn't mean you aren't educated, just that the systems aren't easily comparable.

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    @trekkiegrrrl Same France

    here the School system from France

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    Knowing, more or less how complicated the Poser code is, I really did not understand why they sacked everybody at once without one on one "know-how" transfer.

    It takes a good but new team about a year to understand "what is".
    Then a year to finetune the code and prepare for the future.
    Then a year to "invent and implement" where they wanna go with the app, and at least another year of testing the new code and new additions.

    Add an extra year if they also want to bring the existing content up to 2018-2019 standards.

    Nationality is not so important because there are good engineers everywhere, but for an app like Poser you need a solid and motivated team.

    I always thought it would go to Japan with their Manga culture and where any form of 2D and 3D is extremely popular but it seems Japan was too expensive too.

    I always come to the USA for my vacations because living cost are 1/2 to 1/3 of Belgium. (Stay away from California, Florida or New-York. LOL.)
    I also visit France often. if you think France is expensive? Come to Belgium. LOL.

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    @vilters Yeah Tony, whole Europe sucks with taxes. They get out of control with this. Macron raise the taxes when he get elected and we had to pay April the difference from last year. 3800 € + the tax which would anyway be. Insane

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    Ha-ha-ha-, be happy my dear. You only have to pay one government.
    We have to maintain 4 governments. (5 actually)

    As i wrote somewhere else: I am retired. if I make ANYTHING on the side it is 66% taxes MINIMUM.

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    @vilters They should go to hell whit this robbing out people.
    At last we here in France have again manifestations against new taxes. It is anyway a French hobby to have manifestations . We are against everything .lol

  • @vilters Who the HELL, puts mayonnaise on French Fries, and for the love of God, WHY?????

  • @eclark1849 said in Portugal... hmm...:

    @vilters Who the HELL, puts mayonnaise on French Fries, and for the love of God, WHY?????

    For the same reason I dip mine in mustard - it tastes good.

    Don’t act like an ugly ‘Murikan.

  • @ssgbryan Mustard I can understand.