Portugal... hmm...



  • @Glitterati3D People will pay for it as long as they see value in what they're paying for. If that weren't true Maya and 3DS Max would be on the ropes from Blender. And Poser would have already have bitten the dust.



  • @eclark1849 Maya and 3DS Max are offered to students for free. This is exactly what IBM did - give STUDENTS free access and they create brand loyalty and a skill set that will move into the professional market, at full price as those students become professionals.

    THAT'S marketing. Big difference from DS.


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    @Glitterati3D Stacey, here I really disagree. Like @eclark1849 is telling, people are willing to pay Software as long it is valuable . Look as example, you could never "sell" me to Inkspace or Gimp. They are free, but each time I want to give them a try , I was on the edge of an nerve breakdown. Hate those two apps with a passion.
    And stay with my payed version.
    My husband, very long 3DSMax maniac, now since a few months he move to Blender. But only because the Cloud payment from Autodesk. For a hobby artists like him simply not worth to pay this monthly subscription price.He open his modeler sometimes for 2-3 months not.
    Otherwise he would stay with Max.



  • This thread is about Portugal (more or less) but do you know where to find this country ?
    For the more geographically challenged, here is our geography teacher.

    0_1530537918058_v4 josh map europ txt.jpg



  • @Ladonna Sorry, Ladonna, I'm not talking about the small, independent business person. I'm talking about the college student who was educated on Maya/3DSMax who went into the corporate world and had responsibility for purchasing decisions.

    Those folks are brand loyal because they were taught on those products. They wouldn't even consider trying to manage a dev team on a piece of software they know nothing about.



  • @Glitterati3D
    Student versions are a good thing. But I'm not a student. And I'm using Maxon's C4D for a very long time now. I have no problem to spend money for things I have a use for.

    On the other side: I usually do not spent money for Poser content. Ok, I couldn't resist to buy Project Evolution (and found out: I have no use for it).

    I have no reason to buy cloth. My experience says: most of it is not useful for me or is not worth my money (the dynamic cloth you made and showed to us is a good example for that).

    Poser is a hobby for me. I love to make morphs, cloth and items just for fun (I'm very fast with that). And I love to share some items I made.


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    @Glitterati3D My step son just finish his study in industry Graphics .
    You would be surprised how many apps they had . Even Blender.



  • One question I would like to ask. This view that DAZ users will buy the same products for different products, but Poser users won't, has anybody really put it to the test?
    I know there are people who come on here talking about how they convert everything and the fitting room means they don't need to buy anything new, but is that true for most customers? I know it's not for me. To give an example, I converted Ken1171's superhero suit for Dawn to Bella so I could use the fashion vol 1 textures to give her a variety of sf and fantasy clothes. Unfortunately I ran into problems trying to use the fantasy textures, I'd post a pic but don't know how to tag with nsfw. Suffice it to say when I apply the fantasy textures to the suit bella is wearing I end up with an outfit more suitable to breast feeding than adventuring!
    Now if Ken produced a version of the suit for Bella which could use the textures I'd buy it.
    I would be willing to buy other clothing converted by the original vendor for various figures as this would save me time and they could do a much better job than I could of ironing out any bugs.
    Of course the only way to find out if users would buy is to do it and put it on sale, and I realise that for any vendor they might not be willing to take the risk, everybody has bills to pay and spending time making something they believe won't sell is a stupid move, but I can keep dreaming of multi-purpose multi-figure (conforming) outfits coming to the market!



  • @j.naylor73 said in Portugal... hmm...:

    One question I would like to ask. This view that DAZ users will buy the same products for different products, but Poser users won't, has anybody really put it to the test?
    I know there are people who come on here talking about how they convert everything and the fitting room means they don't need to buy anything new, but is that true for most customers? I know it's not for me. To give an example, I converted Ken1171's superhero suit for Dawn to Bella so I could use the fashion vol 1 textures to give her a variety of sf and fantasy clothes. Unfortunately I ran into problems trying to use the fantasy textures, I'd post a pic but don't know how to tag with nsfw. Suffice it to say when I apply the fantasy textures to the suit bella is wearing I end up with an outfit more suitable to breast feeding than adventuring!
    Now if Ken produced a version of the suit for Bella which could use the textures I'd buy it.
    I would be willing to buy other clothing converted by the original vendor for various figures as this would save me time and they could do a much better job than I could of ironing out any bugs.
    Of course the only way to find out if users would buy is to do it and put it on sale, and I realise that for any vendor they might not be willing to take the risk, everybody has bills to pay and spending time making something they believe won't sell is a stupid move, but I can keep dreaming of multi-purpose multi-figure (conforming) outfits coming to the market!

    And you pretty much nailed the reason why people SHOULD use the Fitting
    Room or Wardrobe Wizard. Sadly, I don't think WW going to be much help going forward, especially if PhilC is getting out of Poser.



  • @eclark1849 The fitting room does not preserve details. Good for simple cloth, but that's not what a vendor could/should sell...



  • @j.naylor73 The thing is, you are just not being given reasonable expectations. The fitting room is just never going to make the conversion process "simple" or "easy."

    Neither is autofit. Nor Wardrobe Wizard or Crossdresser.

    You simply can't take to completely different modeled and rigged figures and press a button and get a perfect fit that will follow every pose and work perfectly. It simply cannot happen.

    Unless you use dynamic clothing.



  • Is every thread on this board devolving into a vendor's ''I don't make enough money anymore" complaint? There was a thread started for vendors to address this devolution of threads, and it was promptly abandoned so vendors can come complain everywhere else. I made a rather long wall of text in that thread explaining IMHO why this is so. I won't repeat it but I will reiterate that the market for vendors is rather limited due to Poser users getting exactly what they asked for from SM. "Content is king" and that does not mean Poser vendors get rich. It means that Poser users are becoming decoupled from vendors as the tools for conversion and creation are put to use. We all have the tools to make great art. Our visions may not be those of a particular vendor and we as Poser users are free to express them without being tied to particular content for particular figures. That is anti-thesis to the DAZ way of doing things. It is the future of this hobby for those who wish to express their visions and not those of a particular vendor.



  • @adp Not really my point, but I understand what you're saying. My point was that unless you're willing to start modeling yourself, or pay Ken to make a one off suit for Bella, the Fitting Room is a viable alternative despite it's faults. At least until Bella has more clothes made for her.


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    @Glitterati3D They learn on really many apps. Maya, Max, Blender , Adobe ,Affinity. Just a few of them.
    True is also that Studios almost never use pre-made content and therefore Poser and DS are almost non existent .
    The reason is to avoid copyright problems.
    They have their own content creator or hire freelancer who create stuff from scratch.I see a few time Poser characters on advertising's, only the characters which comes with Poser and only maybe a dozen time. DS even more rare.
    Poser and DS should keep focusing on the little hobby market. On the professional market they can not win this game.



  • @j.naylor73 Here's the OptiTex Flare Dress for V4 converted to PE.

    Now, I didn't mess with the fitting room, I just took it into the modeler and made necessary changes to avoid pokethrough. Because 1) it's faster, 2) it's easier than watching the fitting room make crumpled foil out of the dress and 3) I retain the UV map, can use existing textures, etc.

    But, it's dynamic clothing.

    I had to use the cloth room to get a finished render.

    But, the bottom line is that it's certainly possible, but much more highly probable to get a good fit and render with dynamic clothing.
    0_1530541294311_FlareDress.jpg


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    It depends on the input-output.

    Three are 2 types of content creators depending on polycount.
    a) The content creators that model every detail in the obj files end up with super high quality but very high polygon count clothing.
    b) The ones that make good use of bump, displacement and normal maps to get the details in the clothing end up with the same amount of detail but at a far less polycount obj file..
    Type a is NOT Fitting room compatible because they loose all detail in the process.
    Type b is fitting room compatible.

    Another trigger : The obj file quality, and again 2 types.

    Poser splits obj files into individual vertex groups at cr2/obj file save.

    a) Content creators that repair their obj files before release (correct vertex grouping and welding) are fitting room compatible.
    b) Content creators that do NOT repair their obj files before release end up with NOT fitting room compatible obj files. => These will crack open (unweld) most of the time.

    And then there is me. LOL.
    Most of the time : I don't use multiple vertex groups in conforming clothing any more.
    They are NOT required for a fitting room operation and get a properly weight- and bulge mapped conforming clothing.

    Ha-ha, and when there is nothing to unweld? Tja, => Always perfect conforming clothing.

    (Told you guys in a previous post that you need surprising few vertex groups.)

    It does not matter what tool you use., but you have to learn how to use it, and how to extract the most of it.



  • @j.naylor73 Actually, if you think back to the days of RDNA, almost every piece made by EvilInnocence was converted to just about every figure available. Most of the EI stuff was conforming. I have no idea what the sales figures were for those outfit, but I assume fairly good because 1) the conversions were done for years, and 2) they were Real Deals, so not priced over $5.00.

    Esha did multiple figure versions of her Levante suit......

    I converted Levante for V4 to PE here - again, not in the fitting room, in the modeler. And, again, dynamic clothing.

    0_1530542256592_Levante.jpg



  • @parkdalegardener Yeah, and that's exactly why the Poser For Dummies web site no longer has Poser users and is populated only by DS users.



  • @vilters You don't know the first thing about being a vendor, Tony. You know only what Tony wants. And, if anyone does something other than "the Tony way, in blender" they are evil. Tony's Law.



  • @vilters And, Tony, given this is your stated opinion elsewhere, one has to wonder exactly what you are doing on the SM Poser forum at all:

    OK, let us finish this off here and now. YES: Poser is dead, buried, underground, obsolete, by-passed, deleted, removed, bought, fired, knifed, shot.

    You're given a free piece of software and in appreciation set out to destroy the company that gave it to you.


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