Portugal... hmm...

  • All comes down to cost, they had a great team and I was really excited about the future of Poser going forward before this. Smith Micro either searched for or was approached with the cheapest deal in town and a promise that the job could still be done at this reduced cost so they pounced on it. If people from the moon came down tomorrow and offered to do the job for even cheaper, they would be our new Poser devs before you know it.

  • Yep, Portugal. Get over it people. Lets let them do their thing.

  • @ghostship said in Portugal... hmm...:

    Yep, Portugal. Get over it people. Lets let them do their thing.

    There is one thing where that matters, though, and that's a matter of expectations. We are responsible for setting our own expectations, and being old and such I don't like disappointments. Being candid, I'm setting myself rather low about what to expect from Poser 12 - even if I'm pretty much set on being a day one buyer. That way when I dash out the $600 (or more) and Poser 12 comes out being an incremental improvement from Poser 11, I'll not be too upset with my hobby.

    The way I see it, what Smith Micro is doing comes down to return on investment. Low profit, high investment means closure. High profit, low investment means genius (it happens rarely). So, between low investment and low profit, or high investment and high profit, how to choose? Both may be equally good in terms of return on investment (say 15% a year). How to choose? If a company has deep pockets and is willing to take risks, then they may choose high investments. But if one's burdened and not wanting to take risks, then will probably choose low investments.

    That's what I think what Portugal means - as a way to invest less, even if that means lower profits (but still good return on investment). As software development is never cheap, that means smaller, incremental improvements. That's why I don't expect any revolution in Poser 12 - even if I'm still committed to being a day one buyer. But then again I may be proved wrong - I frequently am.

  • @ghostship said in Portugal... hmm...:

    Yep, Portugal. Get over it people. Lets let them do their thing.

    Fully agreed.
    Sure they have better things to do with their time than hang around here, but it would be a good thing if @h-elwood-gilliland, head of graphics dev. team, would keep us posted from time to time. It has been close to a year since we had word from him.

  • @fverbaas said in Portugal... hmm...:

    @ghostship said in Portugal... hmm...:

    Yep, Portugal. Get over it people. Lets let them do their thing.

    Fully agreed.
    Sure they have better things to do with their time than hang around here, but it would be a good thing if @h-elwood-gilliland, head of graphics dev. team, would keep us posted from time to time. It has been close to a year since we had word from him.

    Is he still working there? :)

  • @fverbaas not so. All it takes is a quick look at his profile to see that his last post was only 3 months ago.

    @eclark1849 not enough information to even speculate on ;-)

  • Poser Ambassadors

    This thread is pretty disturbing.

  • @anomalaus
    You are right on responses in threads on specific items. I was referring to info on Poser development.

  • Have you looked at the parent web site? Or even better the Facebook/Twitter accounts they host. Just on over at Facebook and they have nearly 13,000 followers. That means when they make a post 13,000 people get it. How many user are lurking on the forum here? Most of you want Poser to get more modern, how much more modern can you get then Facebook / Twitter? Now not saying there is anything wrong with a forum, but if you want a quick assurance that Poser is still around then you need to go where it is.

    One other very big thing to consider is that SMSI is a publicly traded company and they have to be very careful about what they say as it could be taken as insider information which can lead to trouble with the SEC. If they were to stop development on Poser (or any other part of the company) they would have to make a statement to that effect as that can be a reason an investor would buy or sell stock.

    Also as most of you have said the team is very small and are probably working on the next update/version and really don't have time to wade through all the sorrow expressed on this forum. I know that I have been put off by it lately. I may post more thoughts in the proper threads when I can organize my thoughts.

  • @richard60 With all due respect, if there's sorrow in this thread or forum, SM brought it about, not us. But look, here's the deal you build a house in a community, but no one lives in it, WHY??? Of course, people are going to wonder if anyone still lives there, especially when the grass only gets mowed every two years.

  • Maybe, just maybe, there is a reason for the silence.

    All you have to do is re read this very thread and you can see why....

  • Actually I was not going to use the word sorrow to start with, I changed it to be less mean. However I know you do not use Facebook so will not see what most of the rest of what is now the Poser community sees. Of course most likely what is posted there is done by the Public Affairs office so will not have all the great juicy details you and everyone else expects. Which by the way I don't know what answer you are looking for.

    You asked a question about how to get the Vendors back, and the answer is real simple revert Poser back to version 4. That way none of the users will have any of the tools to bypass what the vendors deem is what we want and for what figure we want it for. Much like you get with a Viewmaster. I have listen to vendors and user alike and it seems impossible according to them to have both a modern figure with great movements and conforming clothing. And this all boils down to the fact someone found that cross talk makes a pair of pants move when you dial the figure. SO now we have the vendors trying to make figures fit over other figures and have them match the movements of only one. Since DAZ no longer has to worry about making content fit two totally different programs they can put in whatever fixes they need to make it better. Whereas it appears our vendors don't want to go with what has been in Poser since Version 5 and that is Dynamics. Of course most people will view the above as an attack, which it is not meant to be, but oh well.

    It has been stated that some of you wish Dawn was the default figure (this may be good or bad, no opinion). It has also been stated that SMSI and Chris could not come to an agreement. Not sure what all was on the table, but if all it was is the basis figure and possibly some basis morphs, then I have to wonder how having 100% of Poser owners have access to your base figure, which should drive people to your store (hivewire) to get new things for them is worse then having only a couple percent of User having your figure, especially since Dawn was free at the start. Maybe Chris does not remember to give away the figure and sell the cloths?

    And now of this intended to be an attack or mean or however you want to view it.

  • @richard60 Now that's really funny.

    Vendors do conformers because Poser users are terrified of the cloth room.

    And, today, those same vendors (as usual) are the bad guys because they're still not making dynamic cloth that no one will buy.

    So, Richard, tell me.....do you own every one of the dynamic cloth creations on sale for PE? Because there's not one conformer on the market for her.

    Proving the "vendors are the bad guys here" wrong, once again.

  • And, BTW, I made a dynamic outfit for PE as well. Just never released it as I saw absolutely no reason to do so.


  • @Glitterati3D said in Portugal... hmm...:

    Vendors do conformers because Poser users are terrified of the cloth room.

    I do conformers just because they are immensely faster than dynamic clothing (even if you're right, I am very much terrified of the cloth room).

    Now, imho, the Tight Fit Morph and the Fitting Room make dynamic clothes an extremely useful for users. The are superb pieces of software engineering, and make dynamic clothes a must for animation.

    Problem is, my use of dynamic clothes is 99.9% of the time to use them as conforming. I love how you can fit a dynamic cloth to any toon, then make it conforming (and import the morphs, all in one pass, hooray!!). The reason is that the cloth room is so incredibly slow and prone to failures. I gave up on it completely, 100% stay away from it.

    So at least in my case you have dynamic clothes without really any dynamics at all.

    Imho the only thing that is missing is some control in the Tight Fit morph to make things behave as hard decorated, so that when you fit a button, it doesn't get smashed and flattened.

    So here's for the win - dynamic clothes without dynamics!!

  • What's truly sad is that I haven't rigged for anything below Poser 9 for almost 6 years. Nothing I've rigged in the last 18 months was for anything below Poser 10.

    But, you know, we're the bad guys here - the vendors. The ONLY part of the Poser equation that even attempts to listen to the customers.

    Poser doesn't care what you think.

    SM doesn't care what you think.

    DAZ doesn't care what you think.

    DAZ vendors certainly don't care what you think.

    Not one brokerage house cares what you think.

    So the only convenient targets are the vendors who come here to listen.

    There's nothing quite like cutting off your own noses to spite your faces. Good job!

  • I don't make content but I believe it is easier to make dynamic rather than conforming clothing, well at least the poser manual says so, so I'm astounded we've had threads on here saying how everything should be switched to dynamic and it's only the intransigence of vendors holding us back. Don't people realise vendors are not stupid? If the market, i.e. users, wanted dynamic clothing then that's what vendors would supply.

    Unfortunately we only hear from the vocal few who seem convinced that they know what everybody wants, when probably they are in the minority and are complaining because vendors have never found it worthwhile to support their particular interests.

    Equally I'm really dumbfounded when people say they have invested so much in V4 that they can't, or won't, use any other figure. Come on, V4 is a 3d mesh, not your girlfriend, she doesn't require you to be monogamous, she's not going to walk out on you if you buy a dress for another figure. Perhaps I'm cynical, but if you have invested so much in V4, you're unlikely to want to buy much new. I've only been using Poser for about three and a half years, but my V4 library is over flowing, I don't need anymore textures or outfits for her, the V4 market is saturated. So perhaps those people are really saying "I've already spent a lot on Poser and don't really want to spend anymore, but vendors keep making new stuff for her just in case I fancy buying it."

    And then we come to the issue of price. Perhaps again we here too much from those who make their own clothing, and so are not really that interested in buying. Before I retired at Christmas I was spending up to 400ukp (500usd) and occasionally more on Poser content. Now I've retired I've cut that down to about 150ukp a month. But I make no apology for trying to get best value for my money. If something is on sale, I'm not going to wait until it's full price to buy it. On the other hand while I suppose there is some sort of limit on what I would pay for a single item, I can't imaging paying much over 30usd for a single outfit, I would be willing to pay up to that for a quality outfit in a genre I use for any of the newer figures. But that is because of the general feel of value I've got from the time I've been using Poser. If when I first looked at the various market places all outfits had been priced at around 50usd, that is what I would be paying, just not buying so many items.

    Ever since I started reading Poser forums I have felt a disdain from a section of posters to those they term the "load, pose render brigade". of course they have missed out one vital step in the process, BUY, load, pose, render. In the end typical users need vendors, and vendors need customers, so criticising each other will get us nowhere. If you were considering buying Poser and came to this forum, would it really encourage you?

    Anyway, rant over, I'm now going back to being mainly silent observer, supporting vendors in the way that matters, with my wallet.

  • @j.naylor73 I really only fault Poser/SM for one or two things. Marketing and hype. I have to give to DAZ on this one. They are the undisputed king of Marketing and hype. I've often given SM a pass in the past by saying that they are not a content company, they are a Software company. And I'm not a "Content is king" advocate. And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that content has NO place in this. Hell, it's DAZ's bread and butter. But SM sucks at it. So why keep flogging them with a wet noodle. You'd get better response from making Dawn the default figure and helping Hivewire if not take over, at least give them a fighting chance to compete. I also think that RDNA helped promote Poser far more than anyone may give them credit for. It's unfortunate that we lost so many Poser vendors in the great RDNA "purge".

  • @j.naylor73 It is, indeed, easier to make dynamic clothing than conforming - though I think "easier" is a relative term. If you look at some of the vendors dynamic clothing, it's beautifully made and quite the compliment to their skills. That kind of talent doesn't happen overnight (see Lully's dynamics at Hivewire, for instance).

    The only difference between dynamics like that and conforming is the rigging.

    Lully and a few other vendors have made some nice inroads to making dynamic less scary for the end user, and that's a good thing.

    On your same level of conversation, what I don't understand is these folks who keep "threatening" Poser, et al, with DS.

    DAZ literally replaces their entire product line every 2 years. And the customers dutifully throw out all their "beloved" Genesis figures and start anew. Purchasing the same thing they already bought for V4, Genesis, Genesis 2, Genesis3 and now, Genesis 8.

    Does anyone really think they remodeled the Morphing Fantasy Dress 5 times? And, they're just lucky as heck that 5 times the UV maps were a perfect match??????? Yet, the customers re-buy the MFD for every generation.

    And, Poser vendors can't even sell the FIRST MFD for PE!!!!!!! Those vendors are considered evil for even thinking such an atrocity!

    And you wonder why the vendors leave Poser content creation for DS creation?

  • @eclark1849 It's NOT just their marketing and hype. See my post immediately after yours about the MFD - that's not "hype" that sells 5 versions of the same danged dress - that's customer conditioning.

    The DAZ vendors all wreck havoc on any customer who DARES to suggest that buying the same dress 5 times is silly. Because DAZ vendors stick together and aren't trying to stab each other in the back day in and day out.

    They're part of the customer conditioning.