Help With Poser Skin Tones



  • Hey everyone! I am completely new to Poser and am trying to learn the basics on my own, but I had a question about skin tones in Poser 11.

    Using Poser figures (like Alyson in the left side of the attached picture) turns out pretty well in renders. But using Victoria 4.2 in my renders makes her skin tone look pretty dark and almost alien-like. I've tried other downloaded content with Victoria 4.2 with similar results. The only decent looking skin tone is the all natural wet skin tone (right side of picture). This is using the default lighting in Poser and rendering 1080 x 800 with Firefly. I guess my question is this: is this how Victoria 4 is supposed to look when you load her into Poser and is simply a matter of bad lighting?

    0_1530217873458_vickies2.png



  • Older figures/texture used a light green vs white in the base diffuse channel (not sure why)
    I use scenefixer to correct.
    http://orphans.basicwiz.com/
    and download it

    Bill



  • Thanks, Bill!

    Have you tried using the scenefixer in Poser 11? The website says it doesn't work as well. How do I load the scenefixer into Poser? Open or import it?

    Thanks a bunch!





  • Thank you Ghostship! That is exactly the feedback I needed. Do you know why the default for the diffuse color is that color of green?


  • Poser Ambassadors

    The blue tint was invented by me in a skin shader in 2006 that did a credible job of faking SSS for Poser 6. It required a balanced approach with the diffuse and specular. Daz half-copied it (without attribution) and has never updated it to reflect how Poser now works.



  • @bagginsbill said in Help With Poser Skin Tones:

    The blue tint was invented by me in a skin shader in 2006 that did a credible job of faking SSS for Poser 6. It required a balanced approach with the diffuse and specular. Daz half-copied it (without attribution) and has never updated it to reflect how Poser now works.

    You know, I always wondered about that. Why blue though? Would orange, red or yellow have been more appropriate?


  • Poser Ambassadors

    The rest of the shader (collapsed) adds various amounts of red back into the output in such a way as to create the correct balance.

    The problem is that the red color chips in those other nodes mean something completely different when Gamma Correction is on.

    V4 doesn't look blue in Poser 6. She doesn't look blue in Poser 11, either, if you disable GC in the render settings. But without GC (and a hundred other things) there's no point in having Poser 11.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Default shader with GC on (as we now use everywhere)
    0_1530223798768_v4-gcon.png

    And with GC off the way we rendered 12 years ago
    0_1530223818549_v4-gcoff.png
    See? It works.



  • @bagginsbill Okay, but since we don't need to fake SSS today, we could just get rid of the blue tint, right?


  • Poser Ambassadors

    You could just change the blue tint but you still won't be getting real SSS.

    You need to use a Scatter node of some kind to get real SSS. And to go with it you need - well rather than go over it for the thousandth time, let's just say you need to use a different shader and if you can't build it, get it via EZSkin.



  • I've been using the Physical Surface node ever since I saw a video tutorial where it was explained. Doesn't that have built-in SSS? It looks that way to me, and I like the results. Also, it's easy, doesn't give you kilometres of "spaghetti" and ... well .. I can figure out what it does :D



  • Scenefixer will not work with the surface node, but since older figures (v4) with old texture do not have it, it will work on them. it also has utilities for hiding dials, multiple deletes etc., so it is a handy utility to have.
    0_1530243674390_scenefixer.jpg

    Bill


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @trekkiegrrrl said in Help With Poser Skin Tones:

    I've been using the Physical Surface node ever since I saw a video tutorial where it was explained. Doesn't that have built-in SSS? It looks that way to me, and I like the results. Also, it's easy, doesn't give you kilometres of "spaghetti" and ... well .. I can figure out what it does :D

    Yes the Physical Surface node is included in what I referred to as "a Scatter node of some kind to get real SSS".

    Note, however, that this is NOT a scattering node in FireFly - only in SuperFly. But FireFly DOES have nodes that do scatter. I cannot in any way explain why SM built a new node that only works in SF.

    Earl's premise was "we don't need to fake SSS today" followed by Earl's question "we could just get rid of the blue tint, right?".

    My point was: to get SSS you cannot simply get rid of the blue tint. You have to edit the whole shader - use different nodes than are used there.



  • @bagginsbill said in Help With Poser Skin Tones:

    @trekkiegrrrl said in Help With Poser Skin Tones:

    I've been using the Physical Surface node ever since I saw a video tutorial where it was explained. Doesn't that have built-in SSS? It looks that way to me, and I like the results. Also, it's easy, doesn't give you kilometres of "spaghetti" and ... well .. I can figure out what it does :D

    Yes the Physical Surface node is included in what I referred to as "a Scatter node of some kind to get real SSS".

    Note, however, that this is NOT a scattering node in FireFly - only in SuperFly. But FireFly DOES have nodes that do scatter. I cannot in any way explain why SM built a new node that only works in SF.

    Earl's premise was "we don't need to fake SSS today" followed by Earl's question "we could just get rid of the blue tint, right?".

    My point was: to get SSS you cannot simply get rid of the blue tint. You have to edit the whole shader - use different nodes than are used there.

    I admit to a limited understanding of Firefly, though BB. So My question about not having to fake SSS anymore was based on the premise that we now HAVE SSS in Poser. I believe Firefly DOES have a Subsurface Skin node.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Ach, it is always the same thing.

    Items are build and released for an existing version of Poser and are never "upgraded" when newer versions come along.

    Made me just wonder how many customers are still using light sets they bought years ago with AO in them.

    Or rendering older bought items that have AO on their materials?

    Rendering in SuperFly with FireFly material setups.

    And then wonder why their renders look so funny. LOL.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @eclark1849 said in Help With Poser Skin Tones:

    @bagginsbill said in Help With Poser Skin Tones:

    @trekkiegrrrl said in Help With Poser Skin Tones:

    I've been using the Physical Surface node ever since I saw a video tutorial where it was explained. Doesn't that have built-in SSS? It looks that way to me, and I like the results. Also, it's easy, doesn't give you kilometres of "spaghetti" and ... well .. I can figure out what it does :D

    Yes the Physical Surface node is included in what I referred to as "a Scatter node of some kind to get real SSS".

    Note, however, that this is NOT a scattering node in FireFly - only in SuperFly. But FireFly DOES have nodes that do scatter. I cannot in any way explain why SM built a new node that only works in SF.

    Earl's premise was "we don't need to fake SSS today" followed by Earl's question "we could just get rid of the blue tint, right?".

    My point was: to get SSS you cannot simply get rid of the blue tint. You have to edit the whole shader - use different nodes than are used there.

    I admit to a limited understanding of Firefly, though BB. So My question about not having to fake SSS anymore was based on the premise that we now HAVE SSS in Poser. I believe Firefly DOES have a Subsurface Skin node.

    We do have it BUT NOT IN THAT SHADER. You can't suggest that all you need to do is remove the blue tint. That will not introduce SSS. This failure to communicate is maddening. You asked in ONE sentence if you could simply remove the blue because we have real scatter now. My point was removing the blue is not enough to have real scatter now. You have to actually TELL poser you want scatter. The blue was not faking the scatter, the OTHER NODES are.

    Change the blue chip to white - fine it's not blue. But the scatter is still faked. You have to remove the other nodes doing the faking, stop using the Diffuse_Color chip altogether, and instead use a different node that is not present in this shader.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @bagginsbill said in Help With Poser Skin Tones:

    Note, however, that this is NOT a scattering node in FireFly - only in SuperFly. But FireFly DOES have nodes that do scatter. I cannot in any way explain why SM built a new node that only works in SF.

    IIRC the Physical Surface root was built specifically to work with the output from PBR texturing workflows e.g. Allegorithmic's apps & Quixel, & therefore wasn't intended/designed to be used with Firefly. SSS was also added to it later in the beta cycle at request of some testers who thought it could be useful rather than being built into it from the start.

    @burrito8 - if you haven't already got it, you can download EZSkin 3 here courtesy of @snarlygribbly. It is the easiest way to add a modern skin shader to an existing figure & there is a pdf user guide that explains how to use it.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @caisson said in Help With Poser Skin Tones:

    IIRC the Physical Surface root was built specifically to work with the output from PBR texturing workflows e.g. Allegorithmic's apps & Quixel, & therefore wasn't intended/designed to be used with Firefly.

    You just repeated my question but phrased as an answer. You said it was not designed or intended for FireFly. My question was why is it not intended for FireFly.

    You may think there's a technical reason - and yet I and ghostship have both made compound nodes that do full PBR in both FireFly and SuperFly. If we can do it, why did SM not do it?


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Here is a PBR helmet that I rendered in FireFly using unmodified PBR textures in 2016. I do not understand why Smith Micro does not offer this shader (that I made in an afternoon) as a built-in node for FireFly.

    0_1530304786215_Helmet-FF.jpg

    Notice this features metal, paint, rust, plastic, rubber, all in exactly ONE shader.


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