Making things bulge through clothes

  • Poser Ambassadors

    Not a lot of time so only a quick answer.

    IF, and I say, "IF" you get for some reason or another those BLACK sports on polygons?
    There is only one way to recover. => Close Poser and restart.
    After you got those BLACK polygons, not a lot will work any more. You HAVE to restart Poser to recover the app.

  • @anomalaus correct. I figured this one out. now I realize that what I aim for is quite ambitious. I need a fabric to wrap itself around a human form showing general contour lines, hands, fingers...I guess I need a really, really high polygon cloth prop/figure for that, right? I can use SD - but when I go beyond 4 it's too much for poser to calculate.

  • @vilters quite agree. Those black rendered polygons are always a sign that Poser is having internal problems

  • @gsfcreator have you had success with the socks then? From the images you posted, the mesh density seems a good match for the underlying figure, so it probably doesn't need a lot of additional subdivision to get rid of the pokethrough.

  • @anomalaus The poke-through was not an issue at all. I know how to deal with those...:). the questions I ask you elder gods usually hides a much more complex thing that I need to accomplish. since my type of creations in poser are quite out-of-the-box, I tend to try and do things most users will never do, thus - finding a lot of "issues" and limitations within the software (such as the limit of how far the camera can actually see...but I won't dig into that one now :D ).

    on this case, if you're interested: I need to shrink down a human figure, drop her into a sock, and have her entire outline (at least the general human shape: head, hands, legs) bulge from inside the sock.

  • @gsfcreator ha! I look forward to seeing that. I've often wished that Poser's subdivision could be applied to a selected section of mesh geometry, rather than a whole figure or prop. I even delved into @Snarlygribbly 's subdivider addon, which worked quite well, except that the mesh I was using it on was exclusively triangles and lots and lots of long, thin ones at that, so I ended up having to chop the object (a bathroom sink which I was trying to use a magnet to deform so it didn't cut through an inset basin, but there weren't enough vertices where I needed the hole) into sections and only subdivide the bits I needed. Only to find, of course, that the subdivider then moved the edge vertices, because they were now detached from the rest of the bench. [Eye rolls]

  • @gsfcreator are you rendering in FireFly or SuperFly for this? If FireFly, I would suggest that you could paint a displacement texture mask for the sock and use micro-polygon displacement to "render morph" the sock over the shrunken figure, If the mask matched the figure's shape, you could even move it around the texture of the sock using the X & Y Offset parameters on the image node. In SuperFly, though, there's no substitute for vertices yet, so subdivision would be the only way to go.

  • @anomalaus Octane :O.

    great idea with the DP! displacement map for this might be an interesting test (though I still need to figure out how to create those. it's on my list). for a still-image (the correct project) I'll solve this...but I think further (Animation).

  • @anomalaus

    However, his desire is to shrink the figure down so that it fits inside the sock. In that case the polygon density will no longer match, and there won’t be enough polygons in the sock to wrap around the scaled down fingers, toes, etc.

    Other than increasing the polygons in the sock I am not sure how to get around that.

  • @Deecey which method do your recommend for scaling up polygon count? I have never done that, But I'm on a comeback to the 3D world and got insane hunger to learn new stuff (doing it every day lately :) ).

  • @gsfcreator

    You may need to create a high resolution morph when the figure is shrunk down. Each subdivision level multiplies the previous level by four times.

    So let’s say your figure ends up being ten percent of its original size. Two levels of subdivision might be enough, but you may need to experiment. Hi res morphs can be created with the morph tool, or using GoZ and ZBrush.

  • @Deecey But don't i need to add the polygons to the sock? (not to the figure...)

  • @gsfcreator

    Correct. To the sock.

  • what about the fitting room? if I could merge the shrunken figure to a regulary sized one, and tighten the sock on top...But i guess it will have the same problem as the morphing brush bumped into (low poly).

  • Poser Ambassadors

    @anomalaus said in Making things bulge through clothes:

    @gsfcreator ha! I look forward to seeing that. I've often wished that Poser's subdivision could be applied to a selected section of mesh geometry, rather than a whole figure or prop.

    It might interest you to know that OpenSubDiv had this feature, called Hierarchal Edits in v2. Pixar dropped it for v3 as no-one was using it ...

  • @caisson and so OpenSubDiv Hierarchical Edits are coming to Poser when? ;-) I seem to remember having made a similar suggestion to SMS without that specific reference, when asking for subdivision detail based on Z-depth, but this would put more control in the users' hands.

    @Deecey [I lament this language we use, which causes me to interpret "However" as being followed by a contradiction of what I have understood and commented on (sigh)] when I read the phrase "shrink down a human figure", I could have read that as one of the standard techniques for cloth room fitting, where one brings a slightly reduced scale figure up to the size of the clothing during draping to counter initial pokethrough. However [contradicting my previous premise], the following ", drop her into a sock" says to me that the dropped figure will be an order of magnitude smaller, indeed small enough for the entire figure, not just a single foot, to fit inside the sock. Vertex density matching of sock to figure would therefore require at least three (~sqrt(10)) levels of subdivision to come even close to the same mesh density, and not even then for the figure's more finely meshed areas. [Which only differs from your calculation by matching the linear axial density of vertices, which doubles with each subdivision, from the area density, which squares per subdivision]

    @gsfcreator yes, the fitting room will be similarly limited by vertex density. The cloth room does have options for collide against polygon, but the problem still remains the paucity of vertices to represent the underlying, high-mesh-density shape.

    @gsfcreator can I ask what tools you have available outside Poser, which might be speedier/more efficient at subdividing a section of the sock's mesh? Like ZBrush or Blender?

  • @anomalaus I have blender installed, but i have zero experience with it. maybe that will be a cool first thing to learn? (I installed it for future productions - I need to destroy some buildings in a cooler way than before, and saw blender can do pretty nifty stuff with physics :) ).

  • Dawn capture in a sack.

    I modeled a sack in Hexagon (about 15k polygons) put Dawn in it posed and ran a cloth sim, using PhilC's Cloth Room settings for Silk on the sack. I created a Rim material to constrain. Once the sim was complete, I created a Grouping and scaled the entire group down.

  • same as below, net bag


  • @Glitterati3D great work! can you model a pair of female socks and sell them to me ;) :D ?

    I've managed an awkward workaround and got to this:


    Had to use a cloth falling on the figure with BP, than shrink it, and do some photoshop work with layers. it's ok - but not what I aim for. I want to see DETAILS.

    can you elaborate a little regarding the silk settings on the cloth room?