Should I give content creation another go?


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @vagabondallen looks not good for Poser here.



  • @Ladonna said in Should I give content creation another go?:

    @vagabondallen looks not good for Poser here.

    I have to disagree, Ladonna. Look closely at those numbers. If you add the Poser users and Both, you're over 50%. And, quite frankly, free vs. paid programs and free is only 20% ahead of PAID? Doesn't say much for Mr. Free.

    Secondly, the questions were not terribly well worded, nor scientific. Like the question about purchasing content. The question wasn't where do you buy most frequently, nor where does most of your content get purchased, so anyone who ever bought 1 thing from Rendo checked the Rendo box.

    That gives you a bogus sample.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @Glitterati3D

    I just drink my coffee to clear my mind for a bigger answer. We have here now 6.30 in the morning lol
    Poser has lost vendors and users. This is for sure.
    Now lets see. That RDNA as the biggest supporter from Poser move to DAZ at a point where it was really critical, Poser 11 just get released.
    Very bad message. A few vendors who was unsure before if they should switch over, they do it at this point.
    User move over to the DAZ Mp and stick there with DS and the Gen serie.
    DAZ make it easy for them. Genesis 3 line, each day very good sales. New morphs for Genesis almost every month with huge content sales.
    Meanwhile Poser user was left out. At this moment, honestly, there is not much over the marketplaces which I would like to have.
    Dawn, she is cute, have a few stuff for her, but most of her stuff is not really high quality. Pauline, she has almost nothing.

    While I agree with you that DS is not really free, it gives user the possibility to start free . It has an huge content pack inside which is not outdated like Poser's. It gives users the choice to stack up content for cheap.
    What offer Poser today? A lot, but it moves more to advanced users . DS user don't spent time in clothroom, fitting room etc..lights has to be prebuild, camera settings also. You can buy there even prebuild rendersettings . This is what DS user want . Load a character, put cloth on her, pose and load an prebuild environment , with lights, rendersettings and render.
    Nothing I prefer. I have to say I get pretty quick bored of DS , because of this.
    I think Poser should focus now on advanced user. Leave those behind who leave the ship and move forward. Develop tools which challenge the user to use their own creativity. Develop character which are well made and where vendors can build content around.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Continue after another coffee :)
    What did Survey says? Not so much to be honest , because not representative. Who answers? The questions are not really well set up.
    You can read it in many ways.
    What does not mean that you don't have to take it in count when you want that Poser moves forward.
    Poser make the mistake to try to be loyal to their customer and try to keep backward compatibility as long as possible.
    Well, loyalty never pays out, had to learn this again in a hard way.
    meanwhile DS move forward and give a shit if the user can use their older content or not.
    Poser should now leave the past behind and move in big steps forward.
    New light system, camera settings, particle system, the cloth room need a update, hair room also.
    And this is advantage of Poser, Poser boost the creativity of the user. Challenge people to get by their own creative.
    And this is what we should support. Boost Posers strength and build content around. :)


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Creativity, Artists, Innovation, NEW ?
    Want to be "creative", want to be an artist? Really?

    I created 2 treads here with video tutorials with procedures on how to improve ALL figures meshes in multiple forums and as of this morning they got over 600 views.

    Of those over >600 views, only 93 actually opened video 1
    Of those over >600 views, only 138 actually opened video 2

    I really expected the number of "views" and the number of video openings to be more in balance because as I mentioned in the treads and video's : These procedures can be used on ALL meshes used in Poser. From the Poser1 figures up to and including V4 trough Miki4 and the Genesis family. All you need is the original obj file.

    The above gives more information about the "modern 3D artist" then all surveys combined.

    A large part of the modern 3D artist is a load, dress, render, finished in under 30 minutes type of end user.

    The figures have to be "attractive" right out of the box, or they go elsewhere.



  • @vilters If you can't get the figures anyplace other than the box, isn't helpful either. I love Poser, but 500 dollars is a lot of money to spend to find out I don't like the included figures. Poser doesn't learn from past lessons either. Alyson 2 is a great example. Look at what happened when Blackhearted created the Anastasia morph. Interests in the figure grew. So why not commission him or others to create more morphs for her? If you really look at Genesis, that's all DAZ does is kick out new morphs for the figure, which drives the interest in the figure. But what if all they did was to kick out a new Vicky every two years and they were done?



  • @vilters And another thing... addressing the "figures have to be "attractive" right out of the box, or they go elsewhere" statement. That's not necessarily true either. A lot of people have stated that V4 wasn't necessarily all that attractive in her default state, yet she's the most popular 3D figure of all time.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @eclark1849
    Tja Earl, at the time of V4's release? There was no competition.

    • And she worked in both apps.
    • And the amount of content creators that JUMPED on her, quickly solved that "initial look" issue.
    • Everybody that could create a polygon build for V4. LOL.

    V4 got the most morphs, the most and best textures, the largest closet. What more can a girl want? LOL. She has been 10 years without real competition and attracted content creators like a magnet. What other girl has 10.000 bikini's? ?

    Now?
    End users have more options, and just like in real life, they go for the looks and easy handling.



  • @vilters You kind of missing my point Tony. Sure there was competition. V3 for one and Posette for the other. By then there was plenty of content for both of them. My point though was that yes, V4 DID work in both apps, and DS was still in it's infancy, so it was adopting Poser conventions for the most part. Also, the G2s were fairly decent looking figures "out of the box". You could even get them without buying Poser.. Problem was, Poser changed the rigging and they wouldn't work outside of Poser.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @eclark1849
    Euh?
    Poser changed nothing, and that is one of its strong points: Backwards AND forwards compatibility.
    DAZ changed.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @vilters Tony this is not a strength , it is Posers weak point. You can not invent new gamechanging stuff when you have to keep the past in your backhead.
    What Poser need is step away from the backward compatibility. Full or nothing. This Hybris is disturbing and keep us rotating around the same orbit.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @Ladonna
    What Poser needs most are . . . . . guess........... figures.
    Complete, finished, and error free.

    You can build the best app in the industry. If you not have the figures to go by?
    It is all about the figures.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @vilters Tony, Poser need more than this.
    Go over DA, google after BlackTalonsArts, in his Gallery the Image "The watcher"( Goodby) . And read the comments.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @Ladonna said in Should I give content creation another go?:

    @vilters Tony, Poser need more than this.
    Go over DA, google after BlackTalonsArts, in his Gallery the Image "The watcher"( Goodby) . And read the comments.

    It would be better if you just provided a link, because nothing comes up with that search.

    Backwards compatibility is important and there's no reason for it not to continue while new features are added.

    How much outrage would there be if the old figures like V4/M4 no longer worked in the next version of Poser? I don't even want to think of what the forums would look like, lol.



  • One question that the survey couldn't answer is how many vendors are there producing for poser and how many for daz. It has been said many times that that vendors are switching to daz, in which case you would expect that at some time things would stabilise as less vendors chase the same poser customers and therefor their sales increase.. Not being a vendor I can only look on from the outside, but the number of cut price sales going on at daz and rendo (and elsewhere) seems to suggest that currently there are too many vendors chasing too few customers.
    Another point on the survey, asking which figures people use the most doesn't seem to be the correct question. In my case the amount I use a figure is influenced by how many textures, morphs and clothing sets I have for each figure. But the more of these I have, the less likely am I to buy more, so perhaps the question should have been which figures are you most likely to buy content for.
    I read Ladonna's posts with interest. I'm afraid I can't agree with the logic. If poser concentrates on advanced users and doesn't attract beginners, where is the next generation of advanced users coming from? Also we have seen in comments on this site that the more "advanced" users become the more likely they are to create their own content and instead of buying, so that would be even more likely to drive content creators away from poser.
    Finally on the subject of backwards compatibility. I've only been using poser for about 16 months, but have upgraded twice in that time, from P10 to P2014 and now P11pro. I've also purchased a considerable amount of content. I cannot imagine that I would upgrade to a new version of poser that I couldn't use a large amount of that content in.


  • Poser Ambassadors


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @AmbientShade You missunderstand what I mean. You all have a wrong understanding about " Backwards compatibility".
    Evolute a Software does not mean to abandon everything was is old. What did you understand wrong in Evolute? What I mean is keep Backwards compatibility as long it is possible but don't bend new features to fit old stuff. Example Cycles shader and render engine They are hybrids. Not Meat, not fish. many are disappointed about. This is what I mean under bending Evolution backwards.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @Ladonna Scratch that, I found it.

    I don't see anything in that gallery that couldn't be done in Poser. It just sounds like someone who is bored with the program and uninspired by the figures and content currently on offer.

    Take a look at Erogenesis' gallery. He doesn't even use superfly, all his renders are done in firefly. At least they were a few months ago when he was posting in the rdna forums. It all comes down to knowing your software.

    As for figures, I have Orion bending nearly as well as G3M right now using nothing more than Poser's weightmaps and a few bulge maps. Zero JCMs currently. His rig isn't finished yet, and there likely will be a couple (as in one or two) JCMs in his shoulders, but he doesn't use anything fancy, not even any of the translations that Scott put in Pauline Advanced, since I'm rigging him to work in both P10 and P11. Now this isn't to say that I won't be adding any of that once I get all his weightmaps and scale zones finished, but I'm just stating it here as an example of what is possible when you build content correctly in Poser. And Venus will be done the same way. Both figures are less than 30K poly count. And I'll soon be posting example renders to show how well they pose once I have some texture maps on them that are presentable.

    ETA: Yes, I get what you mean by evolving. I did think at first that you were saying to replace the old compatibility with new.



  • This whole conversation is exactly what's wrong with Poser users, basically.

    Instead of complaining about what Poser doesn't do, what Poser did in the past, what Poser MIGHT do some day in the future, can we PLEASE just talk about how great Poser 11 is NOW?

    Can we inject some POSITIVE feelings into this depressing, too technical, too oft repeated negativity?

    I love, love, love Poser Pro 11.

    I don't like Pauline/Paul, but I have other options that I do LOVE - Hivewire's figures.

    Poser is fun, it's challenging, it's an amazing, constant learning tool.

    Ambient Shade your guy is looking great! I'm excited to see where you take him. I basically do the same thing when rigging clothing - get the base rig right, then start adding "options" in the form of morphs, etc. I find that if the base isn't perfect, the next steps are just downhill from there.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @Glitterati3D You know I love Poser too. Hell, I defend it it wherever I can. But to make" Constructive" critic is needed to evolute.
    If we just all sing and praise how great Poser is, SM will never know how they need to go forward and users will move quiet away.
    If we would not Love Poser, we all would be not here and discus about improvements . Our Love for this Software makes us discussing here.