Superfly sucks, prove me wrong.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @johndoe641 => LOL

    Nah, we are trying to get a negative tread into a more positive/constructive one.



  • @johndoe641
    Only been around 2 the first tried to bite my leg (I was already scared of him so he was just bullying me)
    And the second one was a hit and run.. she walked on the side of me with her baby horse I stopped (inside a car ) so they could keep going..she backed up and kicked in the grill of the car and ran away. so horses are all evil in my book.



  • I suck balls at superfly, but its definitely a good renderer!

    0_1531521195307_face test10.jpg


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @erogenesis
    Good Job Ero.
    LOL; I remember those eyes. LOL.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    I love Superfly (comparing to Firefly), but I have to admit the noise removal (if exists) tends to suck. The very first version of Octane had exact same problem, and they fixed it in the next version. I have heard that they have already added a noise cleaner in the recent Cycles version for Blender, but I don't know how well it works.

    Of course, if you will render sunny outdoor scenes, never mind this issue because it won't show in brightly lit scenes. Like with real-world digital cameras, noise shows up in darker scenes. It's the same in 3D, and add to that raytraced shadows over transparency and caustics - those are some serious noise-inducing factors in most rendering engines.

    Therefore, if we want to prove a point that SF noise removal sucks, bright daylight renders won't do. Try scenes with high light and shadow contrast, and noise will show. Now there are 2 ways to deal with this:

    1. Increase number of samples, and wait forever.
    2. Add more lights to the scene to SLIGHTLY affect the noisy dark areas, and render again to see the noise clear MUCH faster. This will speed up noise cleaning even if the added lights have near-zero intensity, so long as they affect the noisy areas.

    However, if the noisy area comes from refractions and/or caustics, you're out of luck. SF just sucks on this, and a noise cleaner needs to be implemented, like they did with the brand new Octane 4. OTOY has created noise removal in 4 different tiers to deal with this issue, resulting in render time reductions in the order of 400-600%.

    When it comes to this, nVidia's I-ray can indeed clean noise much better than Cycles, but I assume it's just a matter of time before they fix this. nVidia is a large corporation with deep pockets, while the Blender guys have a small team working out of donations. Coming from that, Cycles will always fall behind I-ray, but Blender has a tradition of always catching up at some point.

    Nonetheless, SMS has told me they don't need to wait for Blender Cycles to be upgraded - they can do it themselves. But that was before the team was fired. The new team will need more time before [I assume] they can think on working in this.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    At the Blender site ... they have a new process in Cycles that Denoises renders so you don't have to render for long periods and still get less noise. Hopefully the Poser team with implement this in the next update/version.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @Ken1171
    Blenders denoiser was added a some time ago and works pretty well. As all denoisers, it does blur the end image a bit.
    There are some before/after demo video's on "tube us all." LOL.



  • @Ken1171 Cycles has been upgaded a LOT since Superfly was released. It has a DeNoiser, Portals, microdisplacement, and a shadow catcher, that's not counting the PBR shader they also added. So it all comes down to if SMS has the time, manpower or the desire to add those features to Superfly at this point.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @eclark1849
    Correct Earl.
    The huge advantage is that Blender releases new builds almost daily, and that drafts of drafts of build 2.8 are also available for public testing. Not being bound by fixed release dates and versions has its advantages.
    They move FAST.



  • @erogenesis It does look good. My only recommendation would be a bump map under her eyes for some fine lines. It would just be more realistic.



  • @chk2033 LOL, last week we had 2 donkeys and a pony wandering around the yard. When they got done in the yard, they went up into the road and stopped traffic while the donkeys brayed at the cars trying to get through until animal control got here and took them back home.

    Clearly, someone left a gate unlatched after the morning feed. Oooops!


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @vilters said in Superfly sucks, prove me wrong.:

    @Ken1171
    Blenders denoiser was added a some time ago and works pretty well. As all denoisers, it does blur the end image a bit.
    There are some before/after demo video's on "tube us all." LOL.

    Maybe "most", but let's not say "all", because the new denoiser from Octane 4 kicks some serious behinds. I am having crystal clear renders with a fraction of the time to clear noise. Octane 4's denoiser comes embedded into the lights, scenes, and cameras. They all work together to hunt noise down, and I get no blur whatsoever! ^^

    @erogenesis said in Have you seen the new Poser 12 female model? It's going to blow Genesis 8 out of the water!!:

    Thank you, but please, make your opinion known to the Smith Micro team, @Poser-Team , and make sure they know your every millimeter of suffering, because you will not be the only one to say this. PE is the epitome of Poser's abilities, and you cannot keep up, as a vendor of Poser's backbone: its content. Without this knowledge, and that of many other vendors like you, Smith Micro will have no sense of direction. Thank you.

    Don't worry, I am quite aware that we have to choose between better posing or ease of use. With the current technology, we [unfortunately] cannot have both in the same figure, and that's not your or my fault. I am just stating how it is.

    Like you said, your PE and Ali's Bella are the best we can get with posing, but at the cost of having to use JCM in generous amounts. Great for posing, terrible for conforming cloth. To resolve this, we would need a whole different kind of rigging, or rely on dynamic cloth, which is not for everyone.

    Since SMS are not content creators, I seriously doubt they have the interest or knowledge to develop a new and revolutionary rigging system for Poser. Especially now that the new Poser dev team has just been hired and lack the experience. I think this is what we have, and we have to live with it.

    Of course, I can hope SMS will prove me wrong in Poser 12. :)



  • @Ken1171 said in Superfly sucks, prove me wrong.:

    Like you said, your PE and Ali's Bella are the best we can get with posing, but at the cost of having to use JCM in generous amounts. Great for posing, terrible for conforming cloth. To resolve this, we would need a whole different kind of rigging, or rely on dynamic cloth, which is not for everyone.

    Since SMS are not content creators, I seriously doubt they have the interest or knowledge to develop a new and revolutionary rigging system for Poser. Especially now that the new Poser dev team has just been hired and lack the experience. I think this is what we have, and we have to live with it.

    Of course, I can hope SMS will prove me wrong in Poser 12. :)

    if we want to see any measure of change in Poser or SM's involvement in poser, this is the only way forward. Like I expanded upon in this PDF, we cannot let up in our dedication to bending, because, for goodness sake, we're trying to simulate humans here. It needs to look like flesh, and no matter how you slice it, JCMs is the only way you achieve that in Poser. If SM / Poser harnesses this ability to let JCMs be part and parcel of Poser figures, make it easy to transfer those morphs, we would have one upped Genesis big time. This is great business for Poser vendors.

    To make due with figures like Dawn and Pauline because they 'kinda work' with Poser and are easy to rig for is defeating the whole purpose of art: that it looks amazing. That's why everyone's been flocking to DAZ. They have the quality, DAZ controls it. But Poser could actually master the bends.

    Think of it this way: in the 70s, a mercedes car plummeted down a ravine in South Africa. The driver survived. Mercedes made an advert to boast this. A year later, BMW drive a professional driver with a BMW down that same road, Chapman's Drive, at high speed, and they ended up with a commercial: "we can make the bends". (benz = bends, get it?)

    Poser can do this! They have the tech, I've sent them my recommendations several times. All they need is some clever bugger to put it in motion.

    But to do that, you need to make noise. Yes YOU. Vendors! I grew up on Malawi under a dictator regime, Kamuzu Banda, look it up, and I can promise you, from what I've seen there, ONE voice can make a difference. Yours can too.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @erogenesis
    With all respect, but it is my humble opinion that SM should move on to a "volume retaining" rigging system so that JCM's almost automatically become obsolete.

    The less content creators have to put extra in their figures, the better.

    Around , pfft, time flies, around 5 years ago I send a video to Steve Cooper about such a system, but. . . there must have been a knot in the cable. (Pretty sure it is still in their reporting system). I'll see If I can find it back.



  • btw that reply came from this thread: https://forum.smithmicro.com/topic/4115/have-you-seen-the-new-poser-12-female-model-it-s-going-to-blow-genesis-8-out-of-the-water/15

    kinda got mixed up. Sorry to ruin the party, but seriously, this is actually worth fighting for. PE is not some product, this is a erotic comic artist showing you how well Poser can kick ass....



  • @vilters said in Superfly sucks, prove me wrong.:

    @erogenesis
    With all respect, but it is my humble opinion that SM should move on to a "volume retaining" rigging system so that JCM's almost automatically become obsolete.

    The less content creators have to put extra in their figures, the better.

    allez, I agree with you, but that is very unlikely to happen. This will mean that they will have to dig into code from decades back, and from experience I can tell you that's a massive PITA.

    Poser as it is has the systems in place, the subD tech in itself can solve a load of issues. if they can return the subdivided vertex x numer of time back to the system, they have a way of fooling the system to believe its very high res. Beyond that they could add extra weight mapping systems to how a figure lends its vertex information. And even better... they HAVE the tech that allows for us to access autogrouping, but all they have to do is allow us to access it before the application commits to the mesh split. This can already be done in setup room and theoretically also in fitting room. The point I'm trying to make is that the tech is actually already there, some smart ass just has to get these devs to work day-and-night to make it happen...

    ... that said I don't know what the rules are for the Portuguese.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @erogenesis Don't worry about me - I have submitted TONS of suggestions to the Poser dev team over the years, and the pile keeps growing. A few of them were implemented into Poser, but most are still in the waiting room. :)

    You might have seen I have posted countless comments here about this issue in particular (Poser doesn't support Unimesh geometry internally). When it comes to JCMs, Poser is pretty much broken. It's not possible to create JCMs in Poser 9 or 10 because the Morphing Tool is incompatible with the non-unimesh geometry Poser uses internally. They only made a workaround in Poser 11 so that vendors could at least finish their products, but it wasn't a real solution. To fix this, SMS would have to rewrite the Poser core from scratch, like Larry Weinberg told me in 2016. This would affect all other parts, so they were very hesitant to take action on this. And this was before everybody got fired, so the likelihood that the new team would do this is even more remote.

    Rest assured I have already posted this suggestion directly to the Poser devs internal thread, and it has been sitting there for years. Even if SMS fixes this, it would still be terribly tough to deal with a large number of JCMs because of the way weight maps rigging works. There is no way to make this easy. Genesis uses tons of JCMs in DS, and rigging there is not any easier than in Poser. It's even HARDER with Genesis 3 and 8 because vendors now have to deal with a single map per joint, instead of 3+ from TriAx. Don't elude yourself thinking it's easy, because it's not, and that's a fact of life.

    Weight maps and conforming cloth are very old tech. I have seen whitepapers for brand new character rigging technologies being developed as we speak, but those things will take years to become available to us. For the time being, we simply have to choose between ease of use or better bending. It's one or the other. People have to judge what's more important to them and make a choice. It's bad, but it is what it is....

    Then again, SMS may surprise us all with Poser 12, but considering the new team is rather inexperienced, I wouldn't count on it. We can only hope.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @erogenesis
    Ha-ha-ha, I don't know the rules for Portugese coders, but I have worked with their military in the past, and they are very professional.


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