Pardon the dumb question... but why there's no Blender plugin in Poser?



  • I have advocated for a long time that Poser should have more tools to do adjustments in geometry (ie, mesh editing), but I understand the point that people make that Poser should instead focus on being a posing/rendering/animating tool, and let mesh editing tools do the mesh editing, which is a perfectly fine philosophical point.

    So, assuming that these folks argument about Poser vs Mesh Editing is the strongest one... then why doesn't Poser have a plugin to allow bi-directional communication between it and Blender.

    For example, say that someone builds a mesh somewhere, then rigs the mesh and builds some morphs in Poser. But then he says "hmm... I need more vertices in this region!". He can't add or remove vertices in Poser, so he needs to use an external tool, say Blender. There's a manual process for that, but it's not exactly something a newbie can do. But then changing the mesh will make the existing morphs and vertex maps invalid; he'll have to re-rig again, transfer the materials, etc..., etc... Lots of laborious processes just to add a few freaky vertices. Not user-friendly, and not something for a new user to do.

    Now consider you have Poser and Blender running side by side, and that you had a plugin saying "Edit Mesh in Blender". You click on it, voila, it loads the current base mesh in Blender, using some intermediate file to transfer it; you go to the Blender window, remember all the 500 hotkey combinations and do the editing in Blender, then save the file. Automatically it updates the mesh in Poser, then adjusts the morphs, groups, weight maps, uv maps, and preserves the rigging, the zones, the materials and any other whatnots. Hooray!! Just added 10 vertices at the nose tip without having to spend 8 hours on that!

    This doesn't seem to be exceedingly impossible to do. So why this was never done? Wouldn't that be a big plus for Poser?



  • A complementary plugin would also be this one: add an option in the morph drop-down saying "Edit Morph in Blender". Voila, it does the same thing, but now transferring deltas instead of vertex positions (and of course cannot change the geometry, as that's a morph).



  • @fbs7 If I'm understanding you correctly, you're looking for a link like GoZ (for ZBrush) or Send to Hexagon (in Daz Studio)? That would be a nice addition, but why would SM choose Blender over ZBrush?

    Blender is very popular, and free, but not everyone likes working with it. Then again ZBrush is very expensive, and not everyone can afford it.

    I like this idea, but I'm not sure if it will come to fruition.



  • @fbs7 I do all my modeling in Blender, so I would LOVE a Blender Plugin. Of course, there's a huge scale imbalance between the two programs that needs to be dealt with.



  • @eclark1849 Yes, let's not forget that "little" quirk. Maybe there can be a popup dialog box when you click on the Go Blender (or whatever it turns out being called) that allows you to make the proper adjustments necessary.



  • OK, further to my comments above, Poser does have two links to GoZ, one for figures at the bottom of the Figures Menu --> "Export Figure Mesh to GoZ", and one for props at the bottom of the Objects Menu --> "Export Object Mesh to GoZ".

    I've not tried either one of them, but if the folks at SM think it viable, I can't see why they couldn't have similar links on those two menus for Blender.



  • @Miss-B said in Pardon the dumb question... but why there's no Blender plugin in Poser?:

    @fbs7 If I'm understanding you correctly, you're looking for a link like GoZ (for ZBrush) or Send to Hexagon (in Daz Studio)? That would be a nice addition, but why would SM choose Blender over ZBrush?

    Blender is very popular, and free, but not everyone likes working with it. Then again ZBrush is very expensive, and not everyone can afford it.

    I like this idea, but I'm not sure if it will come to fruition.

    Correct; problem with ZBrush is that it costs $760 (or $140 for students, but I have absolutely no idea what it takes to purchase a student license).

    As far as coming to fruition, I have very little expectations about it. But I wonder if, given that someone went through the trouble of doing that for GoZ, if there was something actually off about doing a GoBlender.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @fbs7 You have to be a student and be able to proof it. And don't forget, it is not a forever license. Only till you are student .



  • As I can't make heads or tails of Blender, I'd personally prefer a link to Hexagon, like DS has. Yea I know Daz owns Hexagon, but oooh if there was a built-in bridge :D

    Hexagon is AFAIK free, too. And much easier to learn than Blender. Sure, Blender can probably "do" more, but what's the use if you don't know HOW? ;)



  • @trekkiegrrrl said in Pardon the dumb question... but why there's no Blender plugin in Poser?:

    As I can't make heads or tails of Blender, I'd personally prefer a link to Hexagon, like DS has. Yea I know Daz owns Hexagon, but oooh if there was a built-in bridge :D

    Hexagon is AFAIK free, too. And much easier to learn than Blender. Sure, Blender can probably "do" more, but what's the use if you don't know HOW? ;)

    You don't learn if you don't ask.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    A Sort of GOB like GOZ has been asked for in Mantis a while ago but it had not been implemented in P11 so I created this video to get Poser items into Blender and back.
    it is dead simple if you follow the video and use the correct import-export settings.



  • @vilters I have heard that Blender's scripting language is Python, as Poser's is. What would you think about the possibility of a pair of scripts in each program communicating to handle the interchange of data between the applications? Would it be superfluous or useful (perhaps presetting the import/export options to appropriate values)?


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @anomalaus
    Oh dear, my memory.
    Poser's inner code is not written in py but in C++ (if my memory does not fail), and not all of it's options are open to py.

    The Poser2Blender2Poser series was made to show what "can" be done using both Poser and Blender.

    Most of my tips, tricks and tutorials can also be used in other apps.
    All you need is a basic understanding of the app your prefer or are most comfortable with.



  • I have been considering process communication for my Poser/Marvelous Designer bridge.
    I bring this up because of the similarity of the interfaces: user sends geometric data from Poser to other app to do things there the app can do better than Poser can do them.

    Like Poser, MD uses Python as their scripting language. In theory, direct process communication would be the fastest method. I studied various solutions and finally concluded a simple protocol of a common file location and naming convention would be most useful and robust way to start. It promised me the best feeling of control over what is happening. I felt I would need that while solving the technical issues.
    The common file location on my system is on an SSD. I found the delay for disk IO well acceptable. I had kept a plan B in the form of using a virtual volume but there was no real need to go there.

    In my workflow I do anyway interact manually with the 'server' app (MD), so while working I change attention from one app to the other. (Guess that would be the same for Poser-Blender) I found it was convenient to have a button on Poser side saying 'make stuff ready for MD', that I can press and then quietly finish off whatever business in Poser that would not affect the MD export. Then, at my time, change attention to MD, (or start it), and there press the button that will load the stuff Poser has left for it. In MD I do what I need to do, I hit the 'make stuff for Poser' button, and again finish off whatever business before moving back to Poser. This can be immediately or it can be two weeks later.
    The bonus I get from storage on disk is persistance and back-up. If I screw up in MD, I simply reload the Poser info.

    The advantage of Poser and MD both using Python was large in that I did not need to learn a new programming language. (It took me learning another GUI toolkit though) I think it is by no means essential the programming languages are the same.

    This being said: if the essentials of the interfaces are the same: importing and exporting .obj geometry, there would be good prospects for a Poser-Blender-MD threesome bridge.



  • @vilters I mentioned python as the user accessible scripting language available to users of the two platforms, rather than implying that they were written in such code, and to infer that script-based, inter-application communication could be implemented without recourse to either software vendor implementing new functionality in their core, internal compiled code.



  • @trekkiegrrrl My personal view about Blender is that unless you've thoroughly read the manual ( it does have one and it does come with it. It is also online), most of it's features are hidden, and there are few if any visual cues in the interface to help you out. I accidently hit a button once and got so lost I had to start over by rebooting the program.



  • @anomalaus Blender does use Python Api as it's scripting language for add-ons.
    https://www.blender.org/features/scripting/


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @fbs7 said in Pardon the dumb question... but why there's no Blender plugin in Poser?:

    I have advocated for a long time that Poser should have more tools to do adjustments in geometry (ie, mesh editing), but I understand the point that people make that Poser should instead focus on being a posing/rendering/animating tool, and let mesh editing tools do the mesh editing, which is a perfectly fine philosophical point.

    Philosophical? Surely it is a practical point - software development takes time; time is money. Should the dev team spend time adding brand new geometry creation/editing features for which there is no obvious demand & that will not compare to other software with years of development in this area, or should they focus on adding new features for which there is demand while also improving Poser's existing toolset?

    Now consider you have Poser and Blender running side by side, and that you had a plugin saying "Edit Mesh in Blender". You click on it, voila, it loads the current base mesh in Blender, using some intermediate file to transfer it; you go to the Blender window, remember all the 500 hotkey combinations and do the editing in Blender, then save the file. Automatically it updates the mesh in Poser, then adjusts the morphs, groups, weight maps, uv maps, and preserves the rigging, the zones, the materials and any other whatnots.

    This doesn't seem to be exceedingly impossible to do. So why this was never done? Wouldn't that be a big plus for Poser?

    Several points to make here. First - "doesn't seem to be exceedingly impossible" doesn't mean much. You're talking about a serious amount of work - not impossible, but not easy at all. Which means a serious amount of time, which means lots of money.

    I find this a useful general rule: if something appears simple (or cheap or beneficial etc) but no-one has done it, that probably means that it isn't simple (or cheap, or beneficial).

    Second, you're talking about creating a bridge to encourage use of a free application that is capable of doing a significant amount of what Poser itself is capable of. The more people use Blender & the more familiar they get with it, the less likely they would be to upgrade Poser. Why would a development team seek to make itself redundant?

    Third, your example is just of someone learning that the best advice for 3d modelling is to use as much geometry as needed to hold the shapes required and no less ;)



  • I'd like to see something more ambitious than simply a way to morph existing figures, though that would be a fine start. I'd like there to be a way to exchange materials, import rigged Blender models as well as modify existing Poser content using Blender. To me it makes a lot of sense to take advantage of what Blender has to offer.

    • Blender is open source so developers have direct access to the code. You wouldn't have the kind of finger pointing that we had with the DSON importer. There would be no legal impediments toward creating a plugin.

    • Poser is already using Cycles so it would seemingly be easier to provide a method of importing and exporting materials. Poser devs already have (had?) a relationship with Blender's code, if nothing else.

    • Blender's mindshare and user base is trending upward. People on Blender forums are happy and excited about the software. Any direct linkages to Blender and their community could create a halo effect for Poser.

    • The Blender community is creating add ons like crazy. There are, I believe, 3 for importing Daz scenes and assets, including figures. Should we be on the outside looking in again?

    • Manuel Bastioni Lab.

    Just some thoughts.



  • Well another possibiliy of course would be to let Poser be the server for Blender, providing posed figure geometry.
    That I understood was one of the original purposes, with render and preview capabilities added for convenience of verification and process control only, with Poser providing input to 'real' graphic apps like Maya for 'real' artwork.
    If Blender has developed to a level where results can compete, that could be a way ahead also.