Bad case of floaty purse. Hints on how to fix needed.



  • @eclark1849 I look forward to seeing what you come up with.



  • @eclark1849 glad you got that sorted. I was going to mention that I'd had an issue with creating a morph with a magnet deformer on a parented prop, directly within Poser, unexpectedly translating and rotating the prop when the morph was applied. It turned out (thanks again to the person who suggested it) that I needed to turn off subdivision before spawning the morph, as there seems to be a bug which incorporates the transforms of the original prop when spawning subdivision morphs.



  • @anomalaus I do have one other problem that I noticed, and not quite sure how to fix it or even if I should bother. The purse doesn't "open" it "transforms" from closed to opened. Either way it looks good and does what it's supposed to. It would really only be an issue in an animation.

    0_1533032498700_64ee2317-4959-46ab-ab39-0ab4cf782c92-image.png



  • I took some screen shots of the "transformation". Instead of opening like a flip top, it does this:

    0_1533033105277_shot1.png

    0_1533033170387_shot2.png

    0_1533033186714_shot3.png

    0_1533033197106_shot4.png

    0_1533033211082_shot5.png



  • @eclark1849 As you can see, the front panel of the lid goes back through the purse body, then shrinks, folds up and stretches out like an accordion.

    I don't know if I can fix that, how to fix it if I can, or whether I should even bother.



  • That is because morphs are always linear. You can sorta trick it by making a 1/2 closed morph inbetween, then there'd be two different morphs. I suppose you could somehow slave them together, but such things are beyond me.

    If you look at something like my morphing pizza box, it has the same issue. I can't remember if that was the one where I made a "halfway" morph, and being Poser-less atm ... I can't check it.
    0_1533033938294_7f1321e8-afad-4997-a4c3-48689e3b0d50-image.png
    http://www.sharecg.com/v/18191/poser/Poseable-pizzabox-with-pizza.

    The "correct" way would be to rig the flap. But I'm not sure if it's worth the bother for something that would probably mostly be used either opened OR closed :)



  • @trekkiegrrrl That current purse, as Miss B knows, is an updated version of one I started for Dawn two years ago. I actually ran into many of the same problems then, grew frustrated, and just stopped. I tried the rigging then then but wasn't experienced enough to know what I was doing.



  • Heh. But now I hear mentioning of a strap. And a strap ... should be rigged IMO. If you want movement morphs. Soooo you might as well rig the whole thing ;)

    Fortunately, something like this is fairly easy to rig. That is ... it's easy to group and thus not too complicated to rig at least.



  • oooon second thought .. a dynamic strap? Hmmmm ...



  • @eclark1849 exactly as @trekkiegrrrl explained, morphs can only be interpolated linearly. What I have done with props like this (assuming you're not prepared to rig them as a figure, which will solve your problem completely) is to use deformers as child props, with the appropriate rotation driven by a value parameter on the main prop. After you've saved prop and deformers to the library, you can edit the .pp2 (or .ppz) file and replace the obj geometries with a null geometry, so they never appear and interfere with your scene. You can even have a two-stage rotation for the top and the flap, if you shape the zones accordingly. You will also want to set the zone falloff to constant (no falloff), so the rotation won't deform the flap, just rotate it. I do this for hair props all the time.



  • @anomalaus I got a thought here. Could it work with geometry swaps? Incremental ones? Now I'm just brainstorming, but I remember a product, ages ago (Ron's Dial-a-Tile) which made a tileable wall by the means of geometry swaps and a dial to drive that.

    So instead of a regular morph, the dial would just call up different obj's with different stages of opening. (It would still be better to rig it, but right now I'm just skating out of the "what if ..." tangent.)



  • (If anyone wants to see geometry swap in action, just load up the P2 figures and look at the hands ;) The gential on-off is also done with geometry swapping, that one is just built into Poser)



  • @trekkiegrrrl geometry swapping is incompatible with unimesh geometry and, I believe, subdivision, but I may be wrong on the last. That's not to be confused with replacing a body part with a prop, which is implemented as a simple (and permanent) replacement of the body part's geometry reference with that of the prop, rather than the previous alternate geometry scheme, where a uniquely interpolated (i.e. ordinal valued) channel could drive the selection and display of different geometries.

    I ran into both of these problems when upgrading all of my figure definitions to subdivision, after upgrading to Poser Pro 11. Some figures (with alternate geometry) couldn't support subdivision and the alternate geometry didn't work at all when I had changed the figure type to Unimesh.



  • @trekkiegrrrl I think I was right on the second assertion. If a figure is not set to Unimesh, the subdivision options don't appear in the figure's properties palette.



  • @trekkiegrrrl however, my previous replies notwithstanding, you can achieve the same effect as geometry swapping with a unimesh figure, if you're prepared to deal with multiple body parts which are not all visible simultaneously, but have their visibility channel driven by a value parameter in the figure's body which only makes one of the alternates visible at a time, but doesn't make use of the original, deprecated mechanisms.



  • @anomalaus said in Bad case of floaty purse. Hints on how to fix needed.:

    @trekkiegrrrl geometry swapping is incompatible with unimesh geometry and, I believe, subdivision, but I may be wrong on the last. That's not to be confused with replacing a body part with a prop, which is implemented as a simple (and permanent) replacement of the body part's geometry reference with that of the prop, rather than the previous alternate geometry scheme, where a uniquely interpolated (i.e. ordinal valued) channel could drive the selection and display of different geometries.

    I ran into both of these problems when upgrading all of my figure definitions to subdivision, after upgrading to Poser Pro 11. Some figures (with alternate geometry) couldn't support subdivision and the alternate geometry didn't work at all when I had changed the figure type to Unimesh.

    Ah. It makes sense that geometry swapping won't work if some of the obj has subD and some not. But I hadn't thought much about it. As I said, it was just an idea that popped into my head after seeing your mentioning of null objs :)

    Can you elaborate on that btw? I think I understand the idea, but I'm always better at picking existing things apart to see how they work than to make them from nothing :)



  • @trekkiegrrrl in fact, I made use of the replacement geometry references on a figure I grew full body fur on, as the hair growth props require the underlying body part to have a matching hair group defined, but as soon as one changes the name of the obj file a figure is based on, lots of things can stop working, like applying poses which require a certain figureResFile reference to apply. I worked around this, by leaving the figure's figureResFile reference intact and just replacing the individual body part geometry references to refer to individual obj files for that actor which included the hair group.



  • @anomalaus Ah yes, I remember you menntioned something about it with your furry female feline. Interesting.

    Poser can DO such a lot, if the right person is around to poke at the right places :)

    Back in the P4 days, a lot of it was by necessity, now it's also for the fun of it :)



  • @trekkiegrrrl I use this kind of replacement for the object definition:

    baseProp SSBsRHipTensorFlex:3
    	{
    	storageOffset 0 0.3487 0
    	objFileGeom 0 0 :Runtime:Geometries:Null.obj
    	}
    magnetDeformerProp SSRHipTensorFlex:3
    	{
    	storageOffset 0 0.3487 0
    	objFileGeom 0 0 :Runtime:Geometries:Null.obj
    	}
    sphereZoneProp SSZnRHipTensorFlex:3
    	{
    	storageOffset 0 0 0
    	objFileGeom 0 0 :Runtime:geometries:props:ball.obj
    	}
    

    Note that it's often useful to be able to see the zone of a deformer, but not usually so for the base or magnet props themselves, as their parameters are usually driven completely by value parameter dials on the master figure or prop, so the zone retains it's original ball prop geometry reference, but the base and magnet use Null.obj

    Null.obj contains exactly:

    
    g Null
    
    
    

    though I'm sure the blank lines are unnecessary. I believe this originated with DAZ's V4 figure, since that used so many magnets for shape correction (most abandoned in the weight mapped version I use now).

    Here's an example of the second skin trunk actors with replaced geometry references which support grown strand hair:

    {
    version
    	{
    	number 6/11
    	build 34764
    	}
    	{
    	// This file consists of all trunk actor objects for the 'Second Skin' product
    	}
    
    figureResFile :Runtime:Geometries:DAZPeople:blMilWom_v4b.obj
    actor BODY:3
    	{
    
    	}
    controlProp GoalCenterOfMass:3
    	{
    
    	}
    controlProp CenterOfMass:3
    	{
    
    	}
    actor hip:3
    	{
    	storageOffset 0 0.3487 0
    	objFileGeom 0 0 :Runtime:Geometries:DAZPeople:blMilWom_v4b_hipHair.obj
    	}
    actor abdomen:3
    	{
    	storageOffset 0 0.3487 0
    	objFileGeom 0 0 :Runtime:Geometries:DAZPeople:blMilWom_v4b_abdomenHair.obj
    	}
    actor chest:3
    	{
    	storageOffset 0 0.3487 0
    	objFileGeom 0 0 :Runtime:Geometries:DAZPeople:blMilWom_v4b_chestHair.obj
    	}
    actor neck:3
    	{
    	storageOffset 0 0.3487 0
    	objFileGeom 0 0 :Runtime:Geometries:DAZPeople:blMilWom_v4b_neckHair.obj
    	}
    actor head:3
    	{
    	storageOffset 0 0.3487 0
    	objFileGeom 0 0 :Runtime:Geometries:DAZPeople:blMilWom_v4b_headHair.obj
    	}
    actor eyeBrow:3
    	{
    	storageOffset 0 0 0
    	geomHandlerGeom 13 eyeBrow  
    	}
    actor rEye:3
    	{
    	storageOffset 0 0 0
    	geomHandlerGeom 13 rEye  
    	}
    actor lEye:3
    	{
    	storageOffset 0 0 0
    	geomHandlerGeom 13 lEye  
    	}
    
    }
    

    The supplanted geometries use an objFileGeom reference, instead of the standard geomHandlerGeom for normal body parts.



  • Just had an interesting thought. Unfortunately, I'm at work now, so can't find out on my own until I get home. But Poser interpolates movement in animation. Could it interpolate the opening of a lid from fully closed to fully open, or does it need an "in-between" point?