Why hasn't anyone told me about layers? :P



  • I was playing around in the material room, and noticed it said "base" on the top. So I thought .. HUH? More layers? How? What?

    I've watched quite a lot of tutorials and never seen this mentioned. Why? It's an awesome feature :D

    I'm in love with the Physical Surface node, because I don't know enough about Cycles to figure out how to do things with that, but the surface node .. I've pretty much sussed that out.

    And it can do a lot of fun things :)



  • 0_1533431923306_d39e312f-de60-4ee9-9640-6951e99a4727-image.png

    Three layers here. One PBR (Scruffed plastic), one clear glossy layer, as if someone gave the little fella a new layer of varnish .. and then .. a layer of paint splatter, just to see how it worked :)

    I like it :D



  • Base layer:
    0_1533432157339_b74d44ee-a7d4-4a7f-a9da-4d3e74479aff-image.png

    Glossy layer:
    0_1533432205636_51b4d30b-29b4-4e03-8490-5459b25564b8-image.png

    Paint splatter layer:
    0_1533432275167_3f68c18f-936b-4e1b-a67d-0657e752c28e-image.png



  • @trekkiegrrrl Yes, I happily discovered the Layers option in the Material Room when playing with Ghostship's Poser 11 Superfly Uber Shader he has uploaded at ShareCG. One of the shaders is for a Camo material, and it uses the Layers option.

    0_1533433392433_Ghostship-Camo-1.jpg



  • @Miss-B I've used the camo material on several occasions. Never thought of picking it apart though :)

    I'm puzzled as to why it's never mentioned. It's such a COOL feature :D

    Here's another combo ... Slightly distressed iron, and a layer of rust.
    0_1533437061200_db7a48d9-d1e2-41ab-9a36-2495329a2289-image.png



  • @trekkiegrrrl @bagginsbill appropriately observed that what layers is missing currently, is a way to communicate, or make use of the results of another layer in the same material, in the way that Blender compositing works (I imagine).

    That said, all the posts here are excellent examples of this useful, incremental improvement of Poser's material room. :-)



  • @trekkiegrrrl yes, my car paint material uses layers too. It's also good for metallic nail polish.

    0_1533440797944_Car Expo.jpg



  • @ghostship Ohhhh, I hadn't played with that one yet, so good to know it's also done with layers.




  • I find this very helpfull for working with the new material note.
    Hope it answers some questions.




  • Her another tutorial on this topic.
    Mark explains in detail how one can work with layers on skin textures...without touching the original texture file.
    This is the greatest invention since sliced bread 😎



  • @marco Thanks. I thought I'd watched all videos about the Physical node, but obviously, I'd missed a few :)



  • @trekkiegrrrl
    Your are welcome.
    Glad to be helpfull.
    Btw, i had to thank you for your great props, i like to use since i discovered them.
    Morphing puddle, newspaper, only to name a few.
    Good luck and fun with your new system!


  • Poser Ambassadors

    I was enthusiastic about layers until I figured out it won't work in previous Poser versions, so I can't use it in my products. Same with the new and improved HSV2 node, which works the way I want, but it's P11 only. For the sake of more sales, I can't use this stuff... >___<

    However, we can do wonders with a few Math nodes, to include combining up many layers of materials one on top of the other, and that works in any Poser version.



  • @Ken1171
    I honestly can not see the problem.
    If you want to create some materials for your products, you dont have to choose if its a material for SF or FF.
    You can have it both ways.
    I have made some really basic material on one and the same Prop for FF and SF, just by adding a second Root node.
    If you have both, a poser root node and a physical root node, you can activate on the top of eatch root node which render engine you want to address.
    If you use this material configuration in an older version of poser, you will recive a message via dialog box, that say "This file was created in a higher version of poser. It will try to open it anyway!" or something like that.
    Poser Pro 2014, for example, will open the file and ignore the part that is meant to be created for the SF engine.
    If you watch the first video i have posted in this thread, jump to the time frame 16:00min. Thats the part in which charles taylor explains this.

    There is an other issue with the usage of sceens in previous versions of poser that being created in PP11, i stumbled upon and have no idea to solve this.
    In previous versions of poser, you have to select a skydome into your sceen, in PP11 there is on by default...and you can not delete it, or i have to say, i cannot delete it, maybe i missed something.
    If you load this sceen into PP2014, the program will search for the mesh file of the dome.
    If you cancel the search and save the file again, under PP2014, you will get this message again.
    I find it a bit odd, that you cant "kill" the dome. First of, i want to have controle what is in a sceen and what is not, its just a matter of me and my preferences and secondly,i have found out, if you make the dome invisible, the amount of render time decreases a great deal.
    And that is an important thing to know about, i think.
    So, if someone knows how to get rid of that dome thing, please let me know.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @marco Go to Libraries\Scene\Poser 11 Environments. Load the Poser 10 Workspace. Now in the Preferences set your Preferred state on startup.



  • @Ghostman
    Ah, thats pretty easy.
    In fact, thats so easy, i would not found this in a lifetime.
    Thanks a lot.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @marco said in Why hasn't anyone told me about layers? :P:

    @Ken1171
    I honestly can not see the problem.
    If you want to create some materials for your products, you dont have to choose if its a material for SF or FF.
    You can have it both ways.

    No we can't. These two things I was talking about have nothing to do with FF or SF. Layers and the new HSV2 node only exist in P11, and can be used with either renderers, and are not tied to them in any way. If you use them in your scenes, be it for FF, SF, or both, your materials will simply not work in previous Poser versions. Give it a try and see for yourself.



  • @Ken1171
    Yes, that is true.
    But you can greate a layered physical root node for SF and a poser root with math nodes for FF like you described in your post.
    Layers will just only work in PP11 anyways.
    If you want to render a layered physical root node in FF, just pick both boxes, FF and SF ontop of the root node.
    If i am not completly out in the woods, this will work in both worlds.
    Do i miss something?
    Let me know.



  • @marco said in Why hasn't anyone told me about layers? :P:

    @Ken1171
    Yes, that is true.
    But you can greate a layered physical root node for SF and a poser root with math nodes for FF like you described in your post.
    Layers will just only work in PP11 anyways.
    If you want to render a layered physical root node in FF, just pick both boxes, FF and SF ontop of the root node.
    If i am not completly out in the woods, this will work in both worlds.
    Do i miss something?
    Let me know.

    I'm sure someone could do a little python script that ticked the appropriate boxes for the case of "P11 Firefly"

    I haven't rendered anything in Firefly since I found Superfly. The only thing I REALLY miss is the micropolygon displacement, and well ... I can live with that 99% of the time :)


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @marco said in Why hasn't anyone told me about layers? :P:

    @Ken1171
    Yes, that is true.
    But you can greate a layered physical root node for SF and a poser root with math nodes for FF like you described in your post.
    Layers will just only work in PP11 anyways.
    If you want to render a layered physical root node in FF, just pick both boxes, FF and SF ontop of the root node.
    If i am not completly out in the woods, this will work in both worlds.
    Do i miss something?
    Let me know.

    I understand the idea, but it's not practical. If I will create the shader nodes to replace layers, they will work with FF and SF, so why would I use nodes in FF and layers in SF? That would be like creating the materials twice without a practical reason to do so. The users won't see any difference, but I would be working in double.

    What I do is to simply plug the same nodes to both FF and SF roots because they both handle layered materials in the same way. What changes is WHERE they get connected to the respective root nodes because FF uses diffuse/specular, and SF uses roughness/metallic, but the rest is the same.

    An example of this is my "Savage Zariyah for Dawn" materials, where I have used math nodes to create the multi-layered materials (skin + dirt + warpaint), so they can be applied in any combinations using the same maps. There are 2 kinds of dirt and 10 warpaints that can be combined in any order, and you can even change the colors on the fly. The shader node layers are identical in FF and SF. The only thing that changes are the root nodes, and how they connect to the shaders.


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