Fiber Eyebrows?



  • I have been looking around for different Poser resources.. .I finally got some hair completed that is semi-useful, although still not 100%... and I wanted to have strand eyebrows.

    Part of the issue I keep running into is the mesh itself. I can instantiate decent "eyebrows" but their shape is irregular because of the supporting mesh.

    I saw some excellent fiber eyebrows for Daz on the Renderosity website, but I couldn't find anything similar for Poser.

    Has anyone had any success creating fiber eyebrows using a different mesh topology that morph with the facial expressions of a poser model?

    Thanks in advance for any advice or recommendations!


  • Poser Ambassadors

    To create dynamic hair, you first create a vertex group in the hair room, and this gives you the mesh, vertex and polygons to grow the hair on. The hair grows from the vertex and denser hair from the polygons. => I hope that is what you mean when you say you are "limited by the mesh shape.

    The correction for this is so simple that few know about it. => Add a transmap on the hair vertex group , and the hair will grow only within the transmap area of the hair vertex group..


  • Poser Ambassadors

    OK, I knew there was some stuff out, but download the pdf from this page, and inside you will find the "transmap trick".
    http://www.book.artbeeweb.nl/casestudy-hairy-stuff-1-intro/
    Hair room tutorial on artbeeweb


  • Poser Ambassadors

    0_1533770952231_SM-eyelashes-cartoo-figures.jpg
    The above was done by growing the lashes directly on the figures geometry, and thus they follow all morphs LOL..
    In Mei 2013, I experimented by giving the toon figures some lashes. LOL.



  • @vilters said in Fiber Eyebrows?:

    To create dynamic hair, you first create a vertex group in the hair room, and this gives you the mesh, vertex and polygons to grow the hair on. The hair grows from the vertex and denser hair from the polygons. => I hope that is what you mean when you say you are "limited by the mesh shape.

    Yes, that is exactly what I meant; the polys that make up the brow are too irregular to create and shape a growth group that was shaped like eyebrows.

    The correction for this is so simple that few know about it. => Add a transmap on the hair vertex group , and the hair will grow only within the transmap area of the hair vertex group..

    I appreciate that information! I did some searching around and I saw posts mentioning transmaps and poly hair, but I couldn't find a tutorial on the subject.

    I don't have access to Poser right now (at home). Does the documentation discuss the transmaps, or is there a tutorial you could link me to?

    Thanks again for this information... I will definitely try it out at my first opportunity tomorrow!


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @rpsdev
    The link to a pdf tutorial is in my second post here.

    OK, I knew there was some stuff out, but download the pdf from this page, and inside you will find the "transmap trick".
    http://www.book.artbeeweb.nl/casestudy-hairy-stuff-1-intro/
    Hair room tutorial on artbeeweb



  • @rpsdev Dude, I got a whole website for finding Poser resources. and a whole category for hair.
    http://www.3dcontentdirectory.com/



  • @vilters said in Fiber Eyebrows?:

    @rpsdev
    The link to a pdf tutorial is in my second post here.

    OK, I knew there was some stuff out, but download the pdf from this page, and inside you will find the "transmap trick".
    http://www.book.artbeeweb.nl/casestudy-hairy-stuff-1-intro/
    Hair room tutorial on artbeeweb

    Yup, saw that... I was still posting when you posted the resource!

    I really appreciate it... Can't wait to give it a try tomorrow.



  • @eclark1849 said in Fiber Eyebrows?:

    @rpsdev Dude, I got a whole website for finding Poser resources. and a whole category for hair.
    http://www.3dcontentdirectory.com/

    YES, I actually stumbled across the topic that chronicled your effort to get that online... I couldn't check it out at work due to restrictions, but I checked it out as soon as I got home.

    A little bummed at the lack of quality male clothing.. trying to create a photo-realistic narrator / host for e-learning courses and the clothing has been problematic.

    I'm still searching through your site and hoping to find something that is uasble for my purpose. If not, I guess I will create my own dynamic clothing.



  • @rpsdev Sadly, lack of male clothing is something that plagues 3d figures. People prefer to render females and vendors prefer to making clothing for females. You'll also notice that male 3d figures are the last to be developed often ariving months and even years behind the female.



  • Your best option for making eyebrows would be to use an eyebrow "skull" cap. Then you could use a transparency map to help shape the eyebrows. Alyson, Ryan, Rex, and Roxie all have them. You could also use the eyebrow geometry on V4 and M4.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    0_1533830116087_fibrebrows.JPG

    I made fibre brows and Ero rigged them for me.

    I will include them with my PE Character, which is on my to do list.
    Does anyone have a cloning machine yet I can borrow? So many fun things to create! LOL



  • @rpsdev when I was working on this:
    0_1533828465449_Wild Thing?.jpg
    all of the caveats @vilters and @redphantom mentioned were things I'd had to work out for myself, having long ago tried and then abandoned hair room use as too difficult.

    The practise of not creating hair directly on a figure, but using a skullcap is particularly effective at helping to reduce the simulation calculation times since the skullcaps can be much lower mesh density than the heads of the intended figure, given head density is there to provide detail to expressions. But what is peculiar to eyebrows, unlike scalp hair, is that the roots must follow the facial expressions exactly, so you really do need to grow the eyebrow hair directly on the head.

    As can be seen on the soles of the tiger-girl's feet, hair visibility can be defined by both selecting only relevant mesh facets, and by applying a transparency map to the hairProp (which will helpfully hide every hair whose root grows from transparent parts of the hairProp, which shares it's UV map with the actor from which it's vertices were derived). Selecting a subset of the underlying actor's facets in the Hair Room actually adds them to a group called hair on that actor, so the figure's geometry gets modified and must be saved and dealt with appropriately for the grown hair to be usefully loaded into a subsequent scene. The hair group is absolutely mandatory, as it provides the link by which Poser maps the morphs of the underlying actor to the newly created hair props, mapping the vertices. If you revert to the original figure's geometry, the link is lost and the hair will not follow the eyebrow location when expression morphs are applied.

    I determined a tedious workaround for this, by exporting the unmorphed body parts' geometries to an obj file (via this script, which includes more detailed explanations SaveActorObjects.py), so that the figure's CR2 file can continue to use the original figureResFile reference, and then just replacing the body part geomHandlerGeom references (which point to the body part group in the original figure's obj file) with objFileGeom references to the saved body parts. Since none of the vertices for that body part change, Poser continues normally and nothing breaks, but the hair groups once again link to the hairProps and follow the underlying morphs.



  • @redphantom said in Fiber Eyebrows?:

    Your best option for making eyebrows would be to use an eyebrow "skull" cap. Then you could use a transparency map to help shape the eyebrows. Alyson, Ryan, Rex, and Roxie all have them. You could also use the eyebrow geometry on V4 and M4.

    I started with James and created photo-realistic textures for him. Right now, he looks pretty good... still obviously 3d, but right on the edge of being real. Once I get him talking and animated, I'm sure it will move the illusion a little bit more down the road.

    I tried to use a skullcap for James' hair, but it just wasn't working effectively. I wanted many separate hair parts, at varying lengths and I needed them to overlap each other. Choosing the polys from the mesh for each growth group really helped create the look I was going for, and using the hair tool to adjust the curve and direction of various parts of the different groups helped give it a more realistic look. Shaped, but with a bit of mess, obviously styled but with loose hairs sticking out. I like the overall effect, although like anything, it can use tweaking.

    @vilters said in Fiber Eyebrows?:

    @rpsdev
    The link to a pdf tutorial is in my second post here.

    OK, I knew there was some stuff out, but download the pdf from this page, and inside you will find the "transmap trick".
    http://www.book.artbeeweb.nl/casestudy-hairy-stuff-1-intro/
    Hair room tutorial on artbeeweb

    One issue I am running into is that I am using Physical Surface nodes for everything. I'm used to the PBR process and I like the no-nonsense way that PBR works.

    So I reviewed the PDF and thought "ah, that sounds easy enough". Unfortunately, in actual practice it doesn't work. I created growth groups for the eyebrows and grew the guides, shaped the fibers, etc., but when I connected transparency to my alpha matte (transmap) and changed transparency to 1, all it did was make the eyebrows completely transparent and ignored the matte.

    When I went ahead and created a Poser surface root node and did the same thing, they also simply disappeared.

    I checked my transmap by mapping it to James' head in place of the head texture, and the white portions I had selected to reveal the eyebrows were in the exact position I wanted them to be. So I'm not sure what is going on with that, but so far, no joy in mudville.

    So I am kind of back at square one.



  • In my most recent test, went back to the Poser Surface and tried to impliment all of the directions provided in the PDF that @vilters referred me to again.

    For whatever reason, the transparency map still fails to affect the fibers. I checked the map again by texturing it directly to the models' head, and the white eyebrows in the exact position I need them to be.

    I'm not sure what I am doing wrong here. It is very odd.



  • So I made several tests this morning and here are the results.

    1. I used my transparency map texture on the model's head, and applied it to the transparency channel with a value of 1. It worked; the area for the eyebrows was the only visible texture on the head itself and the rest of the head was transparent.

    2. I inverted the transparency map, and it reacted as expected when I re-loaded it into the head texture transparency channel. The eyebrow areas were transparent and the head was opaque.

    3. I tried to use it again on the eyebrow hair material. I attached the same transparency map to the transparency node on a Poser Surface root node with transparency set to 1. All of the hair in that material turned transparent, not just the area that was defined by the transparency map. I could still see the fibers, because I had not applied all of the settings from the PDF and they were still showing the effects of other mapping and light. They appeared glass-like, but were still all clearly present. The mapping had no effect on what fibers were visible or not visible.

    I am waiting for an update to the version of Poser I have installed now to the most current SR. I am hoping that may address the issue.



  • @rpsdev I have used both the PoserSurface and CyclesSurface root nodes for transmapped dynamic hair shaders with success, but I have never dabbled in the PhysicalSurface root node, so I can offer no direct advice on it's use. On the PoserSurface root, the Transparency (opacity) input only gates the diffuse input. Transparency maps must be applied separately to specular, ambient, reflection and refraction strengths, in their cases, as well as the alternate diffuse and specular.

    With the CyclesSurface root, a MixClosure of TransparentBSDF and the hair shaders is factored by the transparency mask to achieve the same affect.

    I can see from just a brief play with the bare PhysicalSurface root node that changing the Transparency input to 1 (with the TransparencyMode set to Opacity) behaves the same way as the PoserSurface root, hiding only the diffuse, while leaving the specular untouched and still visible, so all the other inputs will need the same treatment, either setting their strength or blending the input with black, gated by the transparency map.

    Have you tried plugging your alpha map into the Specular_Value input of the PoserSurface node?

    I've just looked at my (untransmapped) hair shader in my current scene,
    0_1534196492785_Screen Shot 2018-08-14 at 7.37.38 am.png
    and added a PhysicalSurface root and Tile to demonstrate what I see.

    When I attach the transparency Tile, with appropriate handling, I get:
    0_1534196608837_Screen Shot 2018-08-14 at 7.40.53 am.png

    Which all looks fine, as far as I can see.

    Can you post your shaders and render settings, with the Poser version number? (I have PPro 11.1.0.34764)



  • IIRC one of the updates did fix a dynamic hair transparency issue. Don't ask which one.



  • @redphantom

    SR6
    SuperFly: Strand based hair now has proper UV coordinates, allowing it to be textured by the surface underneath.



  • @anomalaus said in Fiber Eyebrows?:

    @rpsdev I have used both the PoserSurface and CyclesSurface root nodes for transmapped dynamic hair shaders with success, but I have never dabbled in the PhysicalSurface root node, so I can offer no direct advice on it's use. On the PoserSurface root, the Transparency (opacity) input only gates the diffuse input. Transparency maps must be applied separately to specular, ambient, reflection and refraction strengths, in their cases, as well as the alternate diffuse and specular.

    With the CyclesSurface root, a MixClosure of TransparentBSDF and the hair shaders is factored by the transparency mask to achieve the same affect.

    I can see from just a brief play with the bare PhysicalSurface root node that changing the Transparency input to 1 (with the TransparencyMode set to Opacity) behaves the same way as the PoserSurface root, hiding only the diffuse, while leaving the specular untouched and still visible, so all the other inputs will need the same treatment, either setting their strength or blending the input with black, gated by the transparency map.

    Have you tried plugging your alpha map into the Specular_Value input of the PoserSurface node?

    I've just looked at my (untransmapped) hair shader in my current scene,
    0_1534196492785_Screen Shot 2018-08-14 at 7.37.38 am.png
    and added a PhysicalSurface root and Tile to demonstrate what I see.

    When I attach the transparency Tile, with appropriate handling, I get:
    0_1534196608837_Screen Shot 2018-08-14 at 7.40.53 am.png

    Which all looks fine, as far as I can see.

    Can you post your shaders and render settings, with the Poser version number? (I have PPro 11.1.0.34764)

    Uhm I fail to see that your Physical Surface node does anything there? The Firefly dot is in the Poser Surface Node, so that one takes over for Firefly, and Superfly is using Cycles, so the Physical Surface node is just sitting there, not doing anything.

    OR I have completely missed the point on how the Material Room works :) It may well be.


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