( PROJECT EDEN ) IS STARTING !


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Sorry to say, but 57 minutes of accelerated and silent vertex explosions , and running around like a chicken without a head are not so cool in my book.

    And then blaiming Poser while all I see are fingertroubles?

    Nah, now you have a reason to downgrade.



  • @vilters You know, Tony, folks aren't brutally honest about the figures you display, to avoid being negative.

    Frankly, it would behoove you to display the same deference to other artists and kill the negativity.



  • @all
    Lets all try to stay positive!! We've all got some fair points to be made but we dont need to snipe at each other.
    I think vilters could have raised his concerns more diplomatically but its fair to call them out. I'm really not sure why the video was added to the post at all. As indicated it doesn't demonstrate anything useful about whats going on. Its also fair to question whether the 'Bugs' are actually 'bugs' or just user error as we don't know this poster or anything about their experience with poser. So when we look at a vague video and see things occurring that can occur when things are not done correctly its fair to call out that maybe you just aren't doing it right.
    I've had vertex explosions and I've had rigging issues but when I'd done the process correctly they are able to be resolved. So who knows. Honestly it was an odd choice to announce the project and simultaneously put it on hold citing show stopping bugs. A specific post about the bugs should have been its own thread along with participating in a discussion on solutions and workarounds in the forum. The way it was layed out seems to me to a bit of bad form and I hesitate to jump down tonys throat for calling it out.
    That being said its fair to say there is maybe too much negativity in the way that was done.

    #peace!!



  • @KittyBrown My take in the whole post was to show support for Erogenesis and the issues he is having with Project E. Confirming the bugs Ero found.

    Ero has not been very informative about what the bugs ARE, and this whole thread gave me a better understanding of what has been encountered.

    Reporting bugs and informing the wider community about them are good things. They may confirm a problem you were having but thought it was you and not the program.

    Poser 11 is the best Poser so far. It's not perfect and those who push it to its limits (and past sometimes) help make it even better for all of us.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    That guy needed a cold shower more then anything else. LOL.

    Comes here, horns blowing : I am gonna do this, gonna do that; I am , I am, and so on..

    Next he shows some Alien in Zbrush, that is nothing more then a Pauline at SubD level 3.
    After his first stokes in Zbrush, I say to myself ; Damm, what's left of those eyes? What's left of the teeth and innermouth? Knowing that Pauline is not a simple mesh, I see dark clouds in the sky ahaid.

    Then I see him pushing and pulling mesh around with a total disrespect for the figures or groups origins. From the first minute of that video it went downhill, and further downhill.

    Then I read some reactions here; "We want more, good Job, and so on?"
    What are you guys? Disaster toerist? LOL.

    Basically, I am a very kind and calm and friendly guy, but, and I agree, very critical.

    I am the first to say when something is good. But also the first to shout when I see people falling into a trap.

    This guy exports Pauline at SubD level 3. That should ring a bell or 2, or 3, even before he has a working workflow for the basic mesh.

    First get your workflow working. => Then start exporting something with a SubD.
    Then start "work".

    And come in a forum when you "have" something.

    And if you find a bug? Or if you run into an issue?
    Simply ask a question instead of BANGING the front door OPEN and start SHOUTING and SCREAMING that Poser is full of bugs.

    How come that I can get it all to work properly?

    No, this guy needed a COLD shower.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @Glitterati3D

    Sorry to say Tracy, and let there be no mistake, I have the highest respect for Ero, but all this guy showed (or at least what could be made out of the video) were fingertroubles.

    Little or nothing to do with what Ero found. And again, I have the highest respect for what Ero has been doing.



  • @vilters said in ( PROJECT EDEN ) IS STARTING !:

    That guy needed a cold shower more then anything else. LOL.

    Comes here, horns blowing : I am gonna do this, gonna do that; I am , I am, and so on..

    Next he shows some Alien in Zbrush, that is nothing more then a Pauline at SubD level 3.
    After his first stokes in Zbrush, I say to myself ; Damm, what's left of those eyes? What's left of the teeth and innermouth? Knowing that Pauline is not a simple mesh, I see dark clouds in the sky ahaid.

    Then I see him pushing and pulling mesh around with a total disrespect for the figures or groups origins. From the first minute of that video it went downhill, and further downhill.

    Then I read some reactions here; "We want more, good Job, and so on?"
    What are you guys? Disaster toerist? LOL.

    Basically, I am a very kind and calm and friendly guy, but, and I agree, very critical.

    I am the first to say when something is good. But also the first to shout when I see people falling into a trap.

    This guy exports Pauline at SubD level 3. That should ring a bell or 2, or 3, even before he has a working workflow for the basic mesh.

    First get your workflow working. => Then start exporting something with a SubD.
    Then start "work".

    And come in a forum when you "have" something.

    And if you find a bug? Or if you run into an issue?
    Simply ask a question instead of BANGING the front door OPEN and start SHOUTING and SCREAMING that Poser is full of bugs.

    How come that I can get it all to work properly?

    No, this guy needed a COLD shower.

    I'm not sure we read the same post lol... As much as I agree that it was the wrong place wrong time on the video and bug discussion.. I cant say that any part of that original post came off as "BANGING the front door OPEN and start SHOUTING and SCREAMING that Poser is full of bugs." I thought the way it was worded in the OP was diplomatic and not overstated. Like yourself, I'm not ready to believe that it was necessarily accurate. But it was certainly not a rude post.

    Now as to the demonstrated Sculpt.. OK very stylized and that particular one is not my thing BUT..
    The concept put forward is a very positive plan. I dont know if its occurred to anyone else but the poser marketplace no longer has the ooomph to support the kind of effort and resources that will need to go into a high quality, well supported figure set. We have definitively demonstrated MULTIPLE times that the hope that support for a good figure will simply materialize around the next great thing is a pipe dream.

    I will absolutely love playing with project E if she ever comes out BUT.. with ERO stating that he is moving on from poser and more or less finishing her off as an act of completion I do not see how her release will have a significant difference from Antonia, V4 WM, Anastasia, Scarlet, My Michelle, or any of the other quality figures that have effectively gone nowhere after release. Dont get me wrong.. I think she will be GREAT.. but the quality of the figure has less impact on success than the force of will and volume of resources that get thrown at it after release. I dont begrudge ero a single thing for the choices he is making its just too much of an investment for one guy to make, and I doubt there is the payout left in the market that there once was.

    The stated plan of synergizing their development of the figures and using the figures as parts of other projects to help x-fund the whole works is a great solution to the problem that has dragged every figure( outside of DAZ) down to date. A poser-centric market need s to coalesce around a figure or the availability of quality product will continue to decline. An ever shrinking market cannot really afford to be diverse. The core of the market must become healthy first. Diversity currently in poser marketplace just means a whole bunch of unpolished figures all with moderate to abysmal content options.

    So YES I applaud their goals and stated plans/intentions. And YES I will be supportive. Now I didn't watch more than a few moments of the video.. when I start watching a video purportedly about bugs and there is no narrative or explanation of what bugs are being demonstrated I quite quickly realize that my time is being wasted and turn it off.
    Supportive can still be calling out flaws. Calling out process errors. Calling poor practices. Offering advice. Offering workarounds. these are all supportive/constructive ways of interacting. To me really just common courtesy.

    To be primarily concerned with tearing somebody down so you can administer their 'cold shower' .. sorry tony.. that's just bad form.
    I really wish this community would just STOP TEARING DOWN ANYONE WHO TRIES.. for once..



  • @KittyBrown Well said.

    I would like to add that if THIS had been my introduction to Poser, on my first EVER post on the official Poser forum, I would not be back.

    Regardless of your personal opinions of the actual work, the video, etc. a proper welcome would have been far more inviting than what we see in this thread.



  • now that all being said I'm still not certain what to think of the whole thing..something does seem a little off about it. I'm not suggesting anything its just kind of a weird situation.. You have Project Eden.. its very similar in name to project E ... and they are clearly aware of Eros work on that project... so whats up with that? Is this an association of the two things... is it a take off... is it even for real.. its also a bit odd to post it in just this one place and not reply at all... I do have a lot more questions than answers right now...



  • @KittyBrown yes, i think maybe we've all been conned into arguing about a non-existent thing.



  • it is very odd that the guy just made an account here, made one post and then has not responded in three days. I would be more inclined to believe a post when it came from one of the known modelers here (Chris Creek etc.)



  • To be honest, I STILL don't know what you were arguing about. I took one look at the model he was showing, threw up, and continued on my way.



  • @eclark1849 said in ( PROJECT EDEN ) IS STARTING !:

    To be honest, I STILL don't know what you were arguing about. I took one look at the model he was showing, threw up, and continued on my way.

    LOL. I wasn't going there but I'm with you on that.



  • Ok, lets not completely derail this thread.
    The OP has not responded, and there could be a million reasons why they have not.

    Lets not assume anything and just be glad that someone is doing what they can to make Poser figures better.

    After all, that is what most of us want in the end, more options in Poser.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    OK, on the positive side.
    I will make a tutorial video to show how: "Match Centers to Morph" works best.
    => That is what he was trying to get working but failed.

    You guys choose: What native Poser figure do you want me to use for the video tutorial?

    I propose to make a teen, with hair and clothing, you guys can pick the figure to do it with.



  • With all due respect to you, Tony, talk about derailing a thread. Tony, start a new thread, don't take over this one. Then, I'll tell you to do Pauline.



  • @eclark1849 said in ( PROJECT EDEN ) IS STARTING !:

    With all due respect to you, Tony, talk about derailing a thread. Tony, start a new thread, don't take over this one. Then, I'll tell you to do Pauline.

    One would hope he would take all this expertise to Erogenesis and help him get Project E working.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @eclark1849

    The OP ran into trouble (in the video) trying to use HD morphs from Zbrush, and trying to get "Match Center to Morph" working on Pauline.

    I already have 2 video's on YouTube on how the get HD Morphs in Poser figures. (All Poser figures)

    So this video will be about "Match Centers to Morph" for Pauline. => i will use the same figure as he did. => Good idea Earl. => i will use Pauline for this.



  • @Glitterati3D I lost interest in Project E months ago.



  • Just wanted to say that 3DD got back to via PM (or chat or whatever it is!). They spoke to why they havent been involved in the thread after posting and, to paraphrase, it comes down to not having much time, as well as the tendancies of these threads to turn into brawls.
    My understanding they are planning to update things as they go along but not be too heavily involved in back and forth for the above reasons.

    They let me know that they are working on a less stylized more realistic sculpt to demonstrate within the next few days and that they have come up with workarounds for some of the issues that they were experiencing.

    They are a small group of 3 people, I believe, and come from a DAZ background so they may well benefit from constructive advice from experienced poser gurus.