Bizarre workflows unique to Poser... O.o



  • I just need to share this with you guys. I'm making a comic at the moment, in Poser obviously, and I just realized how crazy my workflow is, I actually lolled. Here is an average workflow minute for me in Poser, and none of this is exaggerated:

    I'm doing a naughty scene, and I use constraints for that. I constrain the hip of the dude to a pendulum type prop, so that it swings nicely. The hands and feet are IK'ed. Now the fun starts, the moment I rotate the camera, any camera, his hands go all weird. Same if I move a hand part of the female figure. This goes back to normal when I skip forward and back a frame. So choosing a camera angle with this system is real tedious. "Lock hand parts" doesn't entirely help here. But then it gets better! I have a couch where the girl lies on, and I use a magnet to make the indentation in the couch. For some reason when I skip a frame, the magnet's effect is cancelled. This returns to normal when I rotate something in the scene. So in short: after rotating the camera, I have to skip up and down a frame; if I wanna see what the magnet does, I need to rotate something, but then the hands of the dude are messed again and I have to skip a frame, oh but then I cannot see what the magnet does...

    And then my favorite bug with Poser (which has been around since 2012), copying frames of a conformed figure with FBMs to the next. Total disaster. Poser is not smart enough to understand its own values, and just blindly copies values dictated by FBMs and pastes them as-is, so basically double the value in the bodypart... Oh and saving the scene, suddenly windows get shuffled and I'm staring at zBrush. Oh and I wanna find a location of a texture, I wanna quickly check something, I go alt+tab, then go back... huh? Poser's gone...? Poser disappears from the applications list when a dialog is opened. Oh and of course the daily crashes. I know exactly what to do to crash Poser. I cannot do that with any other app I know. Oh and I wouldn't know if this is fixed in P11 because I cannot use P11 since my base figure fails to work in P11... you know, the figure I developed inside of Poser... :P

    So yeah its only because of the adventure of PE that I've begun to realize how friggin tolerant I've been of Poser all these years, and that I've automatically built routines into my workflow to undo what Poser screws up all the time, and I do this every minute of every day of every week, for years. Imagine the time gained if Poser worked like other applications? I have literally never seen any of these types of inconsistencies before in any other application.

    Other applications you say? But but you cannot compare it, Poser is not a high end app etc etc... nonsense. Propellerheads Reason, a musical app, very complex, accesses hundreds of files per second, also works with a time track like Poser. Notes everywhere, modifiers, complex effects racks that can be infinitely chain-linked, time-stretches, the works. Copy a segment of a track to another part, guess what... no transpose issues, no doubling of values. Skip through the sequence, guess what, no zero'ed values, no workaround needed. Oh and I can open files from 2007 in the latest Reason... noooo problem!

    And you know what i realized about Reason just yesterday? It never crashes. Like never. All applications crash, usually, and usually I remember which ones do. I've even managed to crash Notepad. But Reason just never crashes. In all the years since 2007 that I used it, and just as intensively as Poser, even together with Cubase, its never crashed. Ever. Compare to Poser: crashes almost three times a week, and if you're making a figure, almost three times a day.

    Reason costs about the same as Poser Pro. Propellerheads is based in Stockholm. I wonder how big they are compared to SM?

    But I still use Poser, and I still like what it can do, but guys of the Poser development team, if you could spend a little more time making Poser a LITTLE more reliable, that would be great.

    Anyway, back to my bizarre workflow...



  • @erogenesis

    I use Reason exclusively for my music (since 2002) and yes, it is rock solid and never crashes. That is why it takes those guys so long to implement new features and such.

    I can only hope that SM sends some love in the direction of the Poser team so It'll get even better. I will never use DS, I don't have the time to learn a new interface and no real need for the new G figures.



  • Yeah I really hope so too. I've been playing with other apps like C4D and Max, and I keep seeing how awesome Poser can be. The lost potential is sometimes really infuriating.



  • Hi there

    Personally I use several SW sometimes in once and as part of my workflow

    Poser crashing,this depends on scene,in some scenes Poser will crash without the single reason which is sometimes annoying,but sometimes surprise me,how much pounding can take without the single issue,sometimes doesn't crash with fairly complex scenes and I use fairly complex scenes and they're usually very large

    I love to use too Reason,I've started with Reason 2.5 and ended with latest which is probably best one,some people wanted from Propellerheads VST/AU support,but if they're supported VST/AU I would think this will bring crashes to Reason,right now Reason is pretty much stable

    Logic X as many people prefer,LPX crashing too without the single reason and same with other SW

    3DS MAX and crashes are pretty much famous due this is good to have enabled always autosave,3DS MAX can take lots of pounding,but something like simple texture or moving single bit can cause crash and you will end up with creating new scene from start

    Every SW can crash,like Windows or drivers,mainly Nvidia drivers

    Hope this helps

    Thanks,Jura



  • I have been (and still is) a developer, during 30 years, I know that any software can crash and I understand . And from what my job has taught me, nearly half the cost of a software is most of the time devoted to the tests <-> corrections part.
    Poser, like any other softwares, isn't perfect in theory. But given its price compared to its possibilities, it is perfect in reality (not the plugin ;-), and it's accessible for me, whereas C4D, 3DS Max and the likes are totally out of reach. Not even a dream.

    That being said, I've had my part of crashes with Poser, and it has never depended on the complexity of the scene, but rather on the mix of a few weirdly built parameters/geometries.
    For example: I have in my runtimes a nice bag. If I don't change anything to its morphs, it will be rendered without problems. But there are situations in which it will make firefly crash if I change anything.

    I can live with that. And now more than before, thanks to Poser's autosave feature that has saved me more than once.



  • Its probably the way I work with Poser, or software in general. I take out of it anything I can, plus I'm making a living with it so when thigns go wrong, its my ass on the line...

    My observations come from a modest background in software development (C#, ASP.NET, and JAVA developer in the Geological survey for 3 years, 3D geological data representation), and over a decade of experience with various apps like 3DSmax, Maya, AutoCAD, After Effects, Premiere, Photoshop, Reason, Cubase, Visual Studio, Eclipse, etc etc some more intense than others.

    Note I wasn't only talking about crashing. That's just one part of Poser I've come to accept. Yes all apps crash, I've crashed Max before, even Maya, I've even crashed Petrel once... Reason probably too in the end. Its the nature of software almost... although I have to insist that Poser stands out head and shoulders when it comes to instability... enough to say that it falls out of the 'all software crashes' excuse.

    But my complaint was more about some of the basic operations in Poser, and how they don't seem to be designed with the rest of the application in mind. So you have great stuff like FBMs and Animation tracks, and now Master Sync, but put together they cause headaches. It is this apparent carelessness that I keep seeing thoughout Poser. Like the post-transform morphs bug, or the scale-bulge bug, or like I mentioned before about constraints and copying FBMs down the timeline, many of these bugs which have been around for years. I do wonder, especially with some of the bugs I found with PE, how the heck can anyone have missed those all this time? Like core functionality stuff here. And one dude in Africa just randomly finds them...? Maybe they were reported before, but ignored?

    Anyway, perhaps for hobbyists or people that just click-load-render its all ok, but for someone that works with poser daily, intensively, and makes a living with it, its like pulling teeth after a while. I have a permanent chat window open, connected to a few other Poser artists, as crazy busy like me... lol you should see the language...

    Now I think we all kind of know why this is. Underfunding, understaffed, different priorities.... take your pick. And so I hope that nobody in the Poser dev team takes too much offense here, this is definitely more a poke at SM. If any one of you clowns at SM are reading this, you're sitting on a goldmine, get with it already...

    Poser is definitely awesome, I get reminded of that at the same speed as I discover problems with it. its fast and easy, very easy... but my goodness the bugs, the weirdness. For comic making, I can handle it. That's fine, there's enough joy to be hand there... but I will never make another Poser figure ever again, that was the worst project I've ever done in my life, and trust me I've done more high-octane geological things than that. I would almost be prepared to sacrifice functionality for reliability.



  • @erogenesis

    I understand you, Erogenesis. But don't forget that you are not really a simple dude, you have really pushed Poser to its limits.
    Note that I'm not criticizing... on the contrary...
    And I really hope that things will continue to enhance, and that you won't lose patience.

    I wish I could help you..



  • lol don't worry I'll find my way. Despite everything the comics are going well. I have also been looking actively at other software, but yeah Poser is for now, just easier.

    I just wanted to drop this experience here in the hope that perhaps I might strike a chord with some people of influence, and maybe help improve Poser.



  • @erogenesis

    Phew... :D



  • HI ERO !

    SoulsShine.deviantart.com Guy here !

    I WORK WITH POSER SINCE VERSION 1 BACK IN 1998

    I started by Using poser Doing Comics ...

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    And yes those are 2 Poser Figures That Are behind ...

    In the latest 10 Years i developed high Advanced Pipeline integrations betwen Poser / Cinema4D / Maya

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    So i can Speak for the Whole Community of - More advanced Graphic developers
    ... on how much we are All Disappointed with Poser Latest release ...


    I Manage a Community with near 4000 Artists and 300 , 3D developers in our Deviantart Open Production ...

    So i Can Speack for What Many Hunreds of Artists ...

    Just Dont Have Courage to ...


    AND THE REALITY IS THAT :

    Iv Been testing Poser 11 Since The First Day was released .. And ...
    Yeah POSER 11 is Quite Full of Bugs and Totally Unstable ...

    • I Believe Smith micro Just unstable Rushed out the Poser 11 release to not Lose the Competition ...

    • So far as i'v seen Poser 11 its just a BETA Preview right now ... of What maibe Just Poser 12 Will better be ...
      But That Means More 6 months of Development and Alot of BugFixes ...


    And i know its Not Easy for the Smith Micro team to Deal With a mamoth Code as Poser ...
    It Would be better for them to Completly Break apart the Code into PLUGINS Dlls ( as DazStudio ) Instead of Relying so much in Scripting Utilities and Gimics that Are added on Top of a too Much Ancient Code of the main program ... Wich Just makes it Breack .. Expecially when you Make Advanced usages ...

    Just for a FUNY Remark that Happened in a Commissioned project to work with Poser Pauline / Paul .. latest months ... We had So Many bugs ( as for example the figure not be ready for subdivisions as Her genitals Polygons would cause constant problems , Bugs in Rigguing, Joint Controls, and the new Features of Morph Following Not Working ...

    That Despaired we just brought Pauline to DazStudio and Rerigued her with Setup Tools in DazStudio

    As a RESULT ... All Every problems We had in POSER ... In DazStudio Was it ALL PERFECTLY WORKING

    THEN We Imported The Triax Rig Made in DazStudio and ( For our Atonishing ) She Was Working AGAIN With No Bugs ...
    When imported from DazStudio cr2 to Poser 11 ... But as Soon we Modified Anything in POSER ... Comed again troubles ...

    Its Like Poser 11 Got this Bugued Virus, that Afect Figures Morphs / Joints / Sds etc ...


    Its Kind of Indescribable ...

    • So we Even Registered all Bugs in Stash to our Other members know them and So try to Avoid them When Working with poser ...

    Its a Long List and its just the tip of the Iceberg ..
    You can get it here Our Team Assignment Report we were forced to do to our customer
    Just to Explain Why We could not finish the Job and Missed the Deathline they payed us for :

    http://sta.sh/021apsnadtd0


    We Got a Whole 2 Weeks of Dealing with Poser 11 Bugs Untill We Had to Quit on Animating her inside poser ...

    • As a WorkAround As we use Cinema4D ... We Just Assembled the Figures in poser ...

    We used POSER 2012 and kuriomes INTERPOSER Plugin For C4D

    https://www.facebook.com/KuroyumesDevelopmentZone/

    Wich is a Plugin that converts CR2 Figures in Riggued Weight Mapped Cinema4D Figures ...

    • Then from There you Can Do Whatever Animations you want With Cinema4D Amazing Fast Rigguing Tools ...

    And Were there was no bugs , We used POSERFUSION For all the rest ...

    ( I Know you Are Shifting to 3dsmax / But you Sure have Way Better Tools For Animation and Renderering
    If you Make the transitions betwen Poser to Cinema4D = Both with Poser Fusion and Interposer

    You can get a better Workflow that way , allowing better results in a less time ...
    Without Having to BEAt on the OLD ancient horse ... That POSER is ...

    Is What We All SENIOR Advanced 3d developers End up to do ( If we want to use Poser in a production Degree )

    http://fredy3d.deviantart.com/gallery/

    We have The Development of a Open Development of 3d Graphic Novels as you do ...

    In Our 3d development Groups Made with Some Large Dozens of 3d developers

    http://soulsshine-online.deviantart.com
    http://soulsshine-madefire.deviantart.com
    http://soulsshine-3ddev.deviantart.com
    http://3ddreamscapes.deviantart.com

    So We canot just Affort to be Stoped by how Bad POSER Behaves ... in Both Workflow and Performance ...


    • And We CANOT Also use DAZSTUDIO ... Because There is no Bridges betwen dazStudio and Cinema4D

    So POSER + POSERFUSION + INTERPOSER + CINEMA4D + VRAY + OCTANE + CARBON SCATTER + + + All Cinema4d Plugins ...

    • Its No Doubt a Better choiçe For a Large Scale production as you want to do ...

    Without Having to Put all those years of Poser behind ...


    That is the Best Advice hat i can give you ( and Everyone that is more serious in Using POSER in a PRODUCTION Context ...

    IF YOU USE LIBRARY MANAGER 2.6 FroM Runtime Dna ...

    http://www.runtimedna.com/ShaderWorks-Library-Manager-2.6.html

    http://www.runtimedna.com/LM2-DAZ-Studio-plugin.html

    With DazStudio Plugin, you can Also Load All every Daz3D Duf Content Inside poser ...

    • Then Send it to Cinema4D With Poser Fusion / Interposer ...

    AS RESUME AND SOLUTION FOR SMITH MICRO vs DAZ Problem ...

    • I am in Deep Believe that To Better Face Daz Studio As a Competitor ...
    • And have More Merchants and developers on its side ...

    Smith Micro Should as Soon as Possible Do this 3 or 4 Things :

    1. Fix Poser BUGS As Soon as Possible ( and Open their Mantis BugTraker for EVERYONE to Participate Not just few testers ..

    2. Revamp Content paradise marketplace to look as good as Daz3d ... Allowing Users Galleries and Free Products Submission with 70% to 90% Sales revenew Much Like Cgtrader.com and others are doing ...

    3. ( SMith Micro SHOULD RELEASE POSER 11 STANDART FOR FREE )

    4. ( And MAKE POSER FUSION FOR BLENDER )


    Were We Could have as INTERPOSER / Our Animations And Changes Automatically made in POSER Translated to BLENDER ...

    But Also Have the Complete Poser Figure Transformed into a Blender Rig , So we can Add muscles Bend bones and Skin Wraping and other Goodies that The Amazing Blender Charactering pipeline allows ..

    WHY "BLENDER FUSION" For Poser ?

    Simply because Blender is The Most Downloaded Aplication on the Planet with Half a Million Downloads Per month ...

    https://www.blender.org/media-exposure/almost-half-a-million-downloads-per-month/

    It Would Do god to Poser Economy to Translate more than Just Cycles ...
    But do a Full Interactive Realtime integration With BLENDER .

    But That Should be Done FOR YESTERDAY as soon as possible ...

    Before the Competition as Bastioni Lab Completly OutShines What poser Does
    https://www.facebook.com/manuelbastionilab/


    POSER FUSION INTERACTIVE Integrations in Aplications as BLENDER / UNREAL / UNITY / CRYENGINE ...

    As Well Improve Poser Fusion plugins to Translate the Complete Figure Animations / phisics / hairs / And Rig to be Twecable Inside Hosts .. Should be the FIRST After Solving Those Bugs That Smith Micro Developers Should do ..

    --

    I made a good Remark on how Important is that For POSER Community Future in This renderosity Article

    https://www.renderosity.com/coexistence-poser-and-daz-studio-cms-18071


    Are Simple 4 Steps That ALL Would make Some Changes on How Many People Use Poser ...

    And Would Pave the New Generation of Poser into a More professional Industry Aplication ...

    --

    Thats What my Almost 20 Years Using poser Experience can Say ...

    On "How Unique Should be the Better professional Workflows with POSER into the Future ... "


    BUT FOR THAT : We need Poser developers to be More OPEN On their BugTracker and be More Willing to Listen to All us .


    GOOD LUCK WITH YOUR AMAZING DEVELOPMENTS ERO !


    THE SOULSSHINE TEAM ADMIN

    alt text

    PS: Another custom Poser Figure / Sended to Cinema4D ...
    And NO / in 20 years i Work with Cinema4D Very rarely i got a Single Crash ...
    Much contrary to 3dsmax ... So you Should reaaly reavail That Desision of using 3Ds Max in your production ...
    As 3Dsmax has as many bad Workflows and Bugs as POSER ... Or Even more ...
    Apications like Clarisse ifx 3 and Cinema4D And Modo Are The Future ...
    But i WOuld not Deal With MODO - For all POSER reasons : Cinema4D is no Doubt the Best Solution for you ...

    • Check out also how Amazing Are the Arnorld / thea / Vray / Corona / and even furriball and Tachyon Render Can be better than Cycles is on a Addvanced Professional production Context ...

    Overall ( You are Just taking Poser Too far ... Than What you Should ... )
    Poser was good for RWBY and some one or two ..

    But for a hyper realistic Impacting Something ...
    Its better for you to Just use POSER as a Content Aglomerator / Figures Setup ...
    Avoiding Everything bad that poser Does as hell ..

    • And Bring it All to Finish in Cinema4D ...

    As Big Guys in our Art Groups Today do

    http://wen-jr.deviantart.com/gallery/

    And that is today ... well ...

    BACK in 1995 When i Started ...
    This guy MARCO PATRITO .. Was my reference ...
    http://www.sinkha.com/preview/play.php?lingua=en&comic=HY

    And i Started to Work with Cinema4D Because of him back then ...
    Now As you can see That is a Proper Production result of a guy With Cinema4D 20 Years AGO ! ...
    And Sure It outshines in Complexity and results what poser 2016 can do today .

    Can you Imagine What you can Do .. if you Stop banging on what does or not the Poor Poser ...
    And Start to Send things from POSER to Cinema4D ?

    Heres a Small Taste

    GOOD LUCK BROTHER ! With my very Best regards.

    __
    THE SOULSSHINE Studio Team Admin