Poser and... WHICH modeler (Blender, Blacksmith, ZBrush, etc.)?

  • I've enjoyed using Poser for many years. I'd like very much to create some props and to modify some characters, i.e.: create &/or modify meshes & morphs. I presume I need to decide upon a modeler and then learn how to use it.
    I presume that Blender is a good choice (?) and hope so because it's the only modeler I know of that I can afford, being free (though many of its tutorials are not free).
    Please let me know which program you think is best for Poser content, and if you think Blender is great, good or at least sufficient. I see that Wikipedia lists nearly 100 3D Modeling Programs: overwhelming, especially trying to compare them. So I'm hoping that you, my Poser brethren will help.

    Next, of course comes learning how to use Blender for Poser (assuming we agree that Blender is at least sufficient for the job). I've found that pretty difficult. I see that Mr. Vilters posted at least 2 videos on Poser-Blender... I wish I could see them but both of them say "Removed by user", no reason given.
    Mr. Vilters, and anyone else with any modeling experience, please share at least a few bits of elementary ways to use Blender (or maybe some other modeler) for Poser. I wonder which programs the guys at SmithMicro use...
    Thanks much for your suggestions and help!

  • Poser Ambassadors

    Hello and welcome.

    Yes, Blender is very popular for good reasons: LOL; the first being the "free". LOL.

    But : It is a VERY capable modeler, UV-Unwrapper, texture creator and its possibilities are endless.

    The usability to create morphs, even HD morphs for Poser, and scuplting work to create characters and new textures are only limited by the end users fingertips. LOL.

    I removed my YouTube tutorials because they will be replaced soon with newer and better versions, with clearer and more complete workflow integrations between Poser and Blender.

    Some found my video's too advanced.
    They will all be redone starting a step lower , "less advanced" and working up to the same end result.
    AND : There's something NEW in the upcoming Poser SR5 that I absolutely want/need to demo. Stay tuned.

    • The first one to be redone are the proper import-export for Poser obj files in Blender.
    • Then we will redo the grouping video. (creating vertex groups in Poser meshes)
    • Then the 2 mesh detail video's, probably merged into one. ( How to create FBM and sculpting details (HD Morphs) for all Poser meshes.)

    Best regards, Tony

  • Poser Ambassadors

    Yes, there are a lot of different modelling apps available. Your budget will narrow down your choices :D

    For free, Blender is probably the best option plus there are lots of tutorials online. Cheap ones worth a look IMO would be Silo and, if you're not averse to Steam apps, look at MayaLT and Modo Indie.

    Whatever you go for, be prepared to invest a lot of time in learning - the most important things I've found in 3D are patience & willpower rather than specific tools!

  • Yes many choices!! I found silo to be a very easy learning curve for modelling, though I cant always get my meshes to transfer back to poser as morphs.. the straight up modelling side of Silo is great for me though. I still need to put some effort into blender as its possibilities and capabilities are incredible for a free program. Silo just jives with my brain better lol

  • @caisson said in Poser and... WHICH modeler (Blender, Blacksmith, ZBrush, etc.)?:

    • the most important things I've found in 3D are patience & willpower rather than specific tools!

    ^^This is so true. It isn't always about the tools.

    To expand on this subject. What works for one person may not be the best choice for the next.
    The best advise I can think of is to try many programs, then decide which one is best for you.
    What is on my Start Menu is going to be far different than the next persons.

    I use Blender, and it is a very powerful program.
    As far as tips.

    • Some people prefer the mouse set up the other way. User Preferences/Input tab/Select with left mouse button. If your keyboard does not have a numbers pad on it, turn on Emulate Numpad as well. As you progress you will be coming back to the settings to turn even more stuff on. Always do settings changes from a fresh load of your default scene, then save the changes as default. Much of what Blender can do is turned off in the default state.
    • Never work on the original Poser files, make copies of them to work from.
    • As soon as you bring something from Poser into Blender scale, it up by 10.
    • When exporting for Poser, simply reduce the scale in the settings box to .1 .
    • Get into the habit of preserving the vertex order when needed.
    • Learn the keyboard shortcuts, there are tons of them.....

    I wouldn't try to learn all of Blender at once, that is a daunting task due to everything it can do.
    Concentrate on what you want it to do first, then the rest will fall into place as you continue to learn it..
    Blender is a Production Suite style program and can be used for many areas a 3D.
    You can make games, movies, all sorts of things.
    At first it may appear that some things are in odd places in Blender.
    But as you progress thru it, it makes a lot more sense why things are laid out that way.

  • Poser Ambassadors

    To add to Scotts comments: First a remark :
    "Never work on the original Poser files?".... Euh ... You cannot.

    Poser comes with obz files that you fist have to unzip into obj files.
    So, LOL, actually you are always working on a "unzipped copy" and never need to touch the original obz files. => NEVER touch the obz files. => Only unzip them into obj files.

    if you happen to buy an obj file? Back it up somewhere safe.

    For what I have been doing, and teaching,, I have never had to scale up or down at import or export. => That is an old Hexagon "left-over-tip". Not required for Blender.

    A generous use of the "snap to symmetry" is required, as it is in ALL other 3D apps also because, like all other 3D apps out there => There are moments that Blender "can" loose symmetry.

    "Preserving vertex order" IS THE SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT step when working on obj files for use in Poser. => Loose vertex order and basically. LOL. You'r screwed beyond repair. => Less LOL. => Unless, you use one of my more advanced tricks that will be in one of the last of the new tutorial series.

    Blender is HUGE.
    It is everything and more.
    But to work on Poser files you only need to learn a small part.

  • Because of GoZ support in Poser, zBrush is very hard to beat for creating morphs for Poser content (GoZ is a one click-solution for transferring meshdata between Poser and zBrush. You do not need to import and export objs anymore to create (even HD-) morphs). If you do not mind to spend some money, zBrush is a very good investment IMO. On the other hand, the sculpting tools in Blender are actually quite nice, but there are of course many features missing compared to zBrush. But as it is free, it is definitely a good place to start.
    I picked up Modo Indie during the last steam summer sale and I have to say I am really impressed. While I currently personally still prefer Blender because of the hotkey-based workflow, you might feel different. It definitely has the cleanest user interface I ever saw in a 3d modeler and I assume that the learning curve is not as steep as it is for Blender. After you read "Modeling with a Modo mindset" from the official documentation and you get used to the viewport navigation, many tasks feel very intuitive. It's worth a look IMO.
    Since you also mentioned Blacksmith3d: While I do enjoy it for texturing (it is really great for texturing Poser content) , I do not think it is worth it for the "modeling"/sculpting tools alone. IMHO any of the tools I mentioned above have better sculpting tools and a better sculpting workflow than B3d has

  • I have been very happy with Shade 3D since back in the day it was offered as a bundle with Poser. It has Poser scaling of exports and imports, which is very useful. I find the User Interface of Blender 3D too clumsy, but use that too, and it works decently for Poser needs.

  • YAY Tony! I'm really looking forward to your tutorials, and glad to hear that Blender is good for Poser.
    Do you have a Youtube spot that I can subscribe to, and so watch for your upcoming videos?

    Regarding how advanced or elementary to make tutorials, well, for me they can't be too elementary. Yes, that's just for me personally, but people capable of understanding more advanced subjects can easily skip over whatever they wish.

    Thanks to you, too caisson and KittyBrown... and all (more have added in before I finished my response :) Anyway, it looks like Blender has all that is needed, though I don't know if it will be simple/easy enough for the likes of me so I can try some of your other suggestions [Maya, Modo, Shade, Silo, ZBrush. (I thought Steam was gaming for Linux, but guess I better check.)(I've already tried Blacksmith)] Most, maybe all of them seem to have trial versions.

    RE some of the specifics y'all mentioned: I have experimented with importing some OBJs into Blender from my Poser Geometries Folder (a primitive box and M4). I didn't 'Save' anything so I hope I didn't mess up my OBJs. In the furure I'll only use COPIES as you say.
    Thanks Tony for explaining that you have to unzip an OBZ to get the OBJ; I didn't know.
    All imports I made from Poser arrived VERY SMALL, much smaller than the default Blender cube, so I understand why I might want to up the size by 10. Or maybe it doesn't matter if I just magnify my view. (?)
    I had Poser10-32 but now I'm using Poser Pro 2014-64-bit. I want to get Poser 11, but it's a lot for old retired guys to afford. So I suppose the "upcoming Poser SR5" only affects Poser 11.

    "File Types to use between Poser and a Modeler (Blender, etc.)(How and what to import/export.)"... I thought maybe this should be a different thread, as it could get involved so I'll open one.

  • I use whatever gets my work done faster. Right now that includes ZBrush for concept and detailing, topogun for retopology, silo or/and modo for props and mesh cleanup if needed. Uvlayout /uvMapper Pro for uvmapping. Substance painter/zbrush/photoshop/mudbox for textures. Again it all depends on what gets stuff done faster in a given situation.

  • @ibr_remote I've bought a licence of shade3D 15.1 pro on SmithMicro site. Was cheap, powerfull and it communicate well with Poser with PoserFusion. I'm trying to learn the modeler but i found it lacks of real tutorials in English. How did you learn it ? I can't learn japanese first :)

  • @lsauvage

    The official English Language tutorial videos are posted at YouTube under Shade3D Channel:-
    Hope this helps ?....

  • Poser Ambassadors

    First of the new video series uploaded.
    Poser2Blender2Poser 1 : The correct Poser and Blender Export -Import settings to get Poser groups and figures in Blender to create Morphs.

    Next in the new series will be improved video's on how to detail the meshes, get some clothing over them, and general finetuning to get the most out of the Poser-Blender combination.

    Have fun using the Poser - Blender tools.
    Best regards, Tony

  • Thank you, thank you, thank you Tony. I've been a Blender user for a long time, so I've been eagerly awaiting your video tutorials.

  • Poser Ambassadors

    Thanks MissB, the new series is gonna be better then the previous series.
    Shorter, better, more detail, tips and tricks.

  • For props, furniture and buildings, nothing beats Sketch Up... specially since it's free and so easy to use!

  • @vilters Tony! Thanks so very much for the excellent P2B2P tutorial!
    I have been reading & watching several modeling tuts recently, but yours is the first one I could fully grasp so it will actually help (instead of confuse) me.
    I, and I'm sure many of us truly appreciate the time and effort you make. Please keep up the good work.
    Sincerely, Knute

  • RE The various 3D Modelers that might be good for Poser:
    I will probably stick with Blender, but I have also been looking at your other suggestions.
    ZBrush seems very much admired but its price is incredible. However, Pixologic does offer SCULPTRIS for free so I just downloaded it. It seems very basic and simple, so it might be a tool I could use. Anyone else here use Sculptris?
    I did try to check out STEAM and its MayaLT & MODO Indie. If I understand correctly: Steam is for gaming, social networking, DRM. You have to have Steam to get MayaLT/ModoIndie. The price for MayaLT is $14.95... until you click to purchase it, whereupon the price changes to a few hundred. Anyway, I guess none of the Steam or Autodesk stuff is for me (unless it can do something Blender can't do).
    SILO is one I still need to check out now.

  • @Knuten48 Just adding my two cents: Blender is awesome, free or not. It all depends on how you like to work. If you dig keyboard shortcuts and can get around the interface, then there's nothing regarding Poser you can't do with Blender. It's extremely powerful and the price can't be beat. That being said, it's not my cup of tea, but eh, different strokes for different folks and all. The best advice I could give anyone learning a 3D package is pick one and stick with it for a good minute. Otherwise you end up learning competing workflows and it makes the learning process harder. You'll know within 30 days if Blender is right for you if you burn the time. Personally, I use ZBrush and Modo as my mainstays. But that's only because the Blender way of doing things, while being extremely capable, just didn't tickle my fancy... well, that and Modo's GoZ functionality rocks alongside Poser and GoZ. Best mojo to you on your 3D journey! If you run into speed bumps give a shout. There's lots of helpful folks around to help when/if you need it.

  • I want to ask..In lightwave can do the same thing or not. Or just in blender?. (lightwave morp)