External Library in PP11


  • Poser Ambassadors

    I wrote the library that is gone. It uses "Flex" which runs in Flash or Air. Flash and Air, while capable of doing the same algorithms with the same data structures, are not the same. As a developer, I always used the Air version as it was easier to debug. SM never asked for the Air version, it fell out of how Flex works.

    When the folks at SM got hold of the Air version, they liked it and exposed it as a Pro feature.

    The Air (external) mode was always how I used it, even as a user, because of its natural ability to get out of the way.

    SM did not have to pay for Air. That is not why it is gone. It's gone because of the users whining about maintaining Flash and Air.



  • @bagginsbill

    Thanks for reducing the mystery about this; I definitely respect your thoughtful process.

    I always marvel at how people want things determined for them, rather than thinking about their alternatives, then exercising their choices. It's the Apple syndrome grown large, like a malformed tumor.

    If the user declined to pick the external library and, if they still wanted a larger Library window, then all they had to do was the kludge workaround of un-docking and expanding it's floating size or just resizing it as a docked box (I'm not sure that can even be done).

    So for those folks who bitched about occasionally updating AIR, which was a GOOD THING to my way of thinking (since updates sorta equal security), what were their alternatives?

    The massive, interface-obscuring expanded-and-undocked Library window?

    A docked, small Library box?

    That large, undocked Library window, drawn within the main Poser interface, has to consume more Poser-managed memory. That cannot be a good idea, since Poser is already a memory-leaking resource hog.

    It's simple: you don't like to update AIR to keep it secure? Don't use an external Library. Easy-peasy. I'll bet the same users turn the UAC off for the same reason; natural selection at work there.

    This sort of thinking is insensible, as is SM's response of deleting the feature altogether. How can they possibly make such a decision based solely on the noise of whining, squeaky people?

    It is very much akin to throwing the baby out with the bathwater. SM has every registered user's email; why not poll users on feature decisions?

    Can the feature be re-enabled on PP11 via a configuration change, or is it gone-for-good?

    Thanks for the thoughtful reply!



  • I never had a problem with updating Adobe Air or any problems with the library in PP2014.



  • @ghostship I never had a problem with the AIR library, either, or with updating it, as annoying as Adobe's frequent security updates could be.



  • I never did either, and I much prefer it to PP11.

    Looks like the whiners got it removed, though.



  • @mpdugas said in External Library in PP11:

    My main complaint about having to use this lash-up is the simple fact that it operates within the main Poser program memory space, almost full-screen, and not out of it. It makes a sluggish program even more so; it's a kludge...a jury-rig substitute for a better practice. I watch it pause, in its snowy splendor of pure whiteness, as if catching its breath before it moves on and displays the icons I need. The software "Pause that Refreshes", so-to-speak.

    If you're experiencing slow operation, and Poser "pausing" on something like displaying the library, the problem might be with your system rather than the program.



  • @modus0

    Of course, it's very natural to suspect that something might be amiss there, so here are my system specs:

    i7-5960x o/c to 4 Ghz, 16 GB Ram, a GTX Titan X (Maxwell), all running on a Samsung 512 GB SSD. Do you think that configuration is adequate?

    The truth is sadder.

    Poser has been the victim of a sales team that pushes the next iteration of Poser on the basis of "more new features", but never fully addressing the inability of Poser to be able to run its core functions with stability and reliability.

    It is a software program whose feature set seems to mired at about 85% complete. I'd be much happier if they would just finish the product, once, and I'd be glad to pay an upgrade fee for that. I'm quite tired of dealing with beta software.

    The way my evaluation is going, I may be asking for a refund.



  • Wow, this thread contains some serious "ugly" at it's finest.

    I'm sorry, but as one of the "whiners," it had absolutely NOTHING to do with keeping Air/Flash up to date, it had to do with the fact that every time anyone looked funny at Air/Flash it BROKE rendering our installations of Poser useless until someone got off their duff and fixed it.

    Updates? No, not the problem - the problem was, and still is, that Adobe is the least secure piece of junk on the market and every other day someone discovers yet another security hole a mile wide.



  • @Glitterati3D I got PP2014 the day it came out and never once had an issue with the library, flash, air, or updating anything. Not trying to be nasty or anything just saying that it looks like some folks have had a different experience with their computer/software. Not sure what the solution is. I do know that the library menu now jumps around when you click on a new folder. Hope they can fix that in the next patch.



  • @Glitterati3D

    I started this 'ugly' thread to try to arrive at a solution to the adjust for loss of the external library window; so far, the workarounds suggested to accomplish that make Poser even more unstable. But I am grateful for the suggestions, and I have implemented some of them. I much prefer the external window, though.

    "SM did not have to pay for Air. That is not why it is gone. It's gone because of the users whining about maintaining Flash and Air."

    So you say you are one of those complainers.

    Just how did 'looking funny ' at Adobe break Poser, rendering your installations useless?

    How has removing it from your machines made Poser even a jot more stable?

    What did the external Library window have to do with the security of your system? Were any of your PCs compromised because SM adopted the use of AIR?

    I am curious about why are you making your contribution to this discussion so personal, though.



  • @mpdugas said in External Library in PP11:

    @Glitterati3D

    I am curious about why are you making your contribution to this discussion so personal, though.

    Really? I am making it personal?

    Just a few quotes from this thread before I ever entered it:

    It's gone because of the users whining about maintaining Flash and Air.
    How can they possibly make such a decision based solely on the noise of whining, squeaky people?

    And I'm making it personal? Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha

    And, yes, Flash is so insecure Netscape refuses to allow their users access to it about once every 3 months. And, every Windows update BREAKS Flash/Air. Until Adobe bothers to fix them, you have no access to your Poser libraries.



  • @ghostship I'm not saying/implying there are no problems with the Poser 11 library. I don't have the same issue others do, but I never said they didn't exist.

    My complaint was the personal attacks on other users who don't like the Adobe based libraries.



  • @Glitterati3D

    The term "whiny users" is not mine; I repeated the comment, because it was offered as the primary reason why AIR was removed. I had guessed that it might be an Adobe licensing cost, but I was told otherwise. That said, it does not seem to be inappropriate in the context of this problem.

    The term was not pointed at anyone in particular, but when you entered the conversation, you adopted the phrase as if it was being directed at you. Until you did that, there was nothing personal in the thread at all. No criticism of a great, grey 'they' can be construed as personal.

    How that justified your labeling the whole thread as "serious(ly) ugly" is a mystery to me.

    However, that said, I do apologize if it seems that my remarks, made completely before you contributed anything to the conversation, were somehow being personally directed at you.

    I am, however, interested in learning why you (and perhaps others along with you) made such vigorous complaints to SM that they were willing to remove a very helpful service such as the AIR-driven external Library just to please you.

    I asked you some very specific questions about Flash/Air, because you proffered some scathing remarks about it to justify your obvious contempt for all thing Adobe, but I've never experienced a broken Poser, to the point where no access to any Poser Library was possible, after a Windows update.

    I suppose that keeping Adobe up-to-date is important; all software eventually butts heads with Microsoft's evolving OS, and they have to make periodic adjustments to 're-align' their product with the changes. That has always been part of the Windows landscape, and I am sure it surprises no one to see conflicts arising after MS makes changes.

    If avoiding using such products, like AIR, just because they need to be changed to accommodation OS changes, was the prevailing standard, then I suspect there would be very little left for us to use.

    I have no idea of how Netscape might have any relevance or importance here, but I am interested in why you think it does. Isn't Netscape the origin of Javascript? Doesn't that have security issues as well?

    Do you suppose you could take the time to answer those?





  • @Glitterati3D

    I see.

    Your links add nothing to the conversation at all. First link leads to lots of posts showing that Poser library problems are due to IE11 installation or internal Poser problems.

    No mention of AIR at all.

    Second link is meaningless and adds nothing to the issue.

    You really don't have any substance behind your assertions or complaints about AIR.

    You are, in reality, just a whiner.

    Go whine to SM; maybe they will ban me or whatever.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @mpdugas

    There have been many, many threads complaining about Poser using Flash/Air over the past few years since Poser introduced it in Poser 8. And in the last year or two, Google and Apple have been trying to push out of their OS or browsers in favor of HTML5 and Microsoft is moving towards HTML5 as well.
    So there is a good reason for Poser to move to HTML5 as well.

    Having said that - you can still use the Air library in Poser 11 for loading items. Just start LSMGUIAIR.EXE and you will have that. However, you are not able to save items in the library that way.
    Alternatively, you can start the HTML5 library in your browser and you will have a library which is a separate program. You can even have multiple views open at the same time in different tabs. (to find the URL, just close Poser, set External library to 1 in Poser.ini and start Poser again. It will now tell you the URL). Use this URL in IE or Chrome and it will open up the library.
    However - both of these methods are not supported by Poser, so use at your own risk.

    The Poser method of using its own libary interface with Item view enabled in docking mode and using the Library On/Off button remains the easiest method to use the library



  • @wimvdb

    I like your answer, and I have but one question: of all the threads Glitterati3d linked , I found no mention of AIR causing the problem with the Poser Library, which I am still having, even without AIR. I see IE11, and various Poser configuration errors, but no mention of the problem in the later versions of Poser caused by AIR.

    Notwithstanding that, thanks for the constructive answer; I'm going to give it a try.

    I did, in fact, look for threads about this before I opened this one. Unfortunately, I did not find any.

    When I run the LSMGUIAIR executable, do I have to repopulate the library manually? Can I point it to my LibraryPrefs configuration file somehow?

    Never mind: it eventually repopulated itself.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @mpdugas said in External Library in PP11:

    ntion of AIR

    The Air and Flash version use the same code. At the time the library was developed for Flash, there was no 64 bit version of Flash, so they had to use the AIR libraries - which was able to run as a separate program (as Bagginsbill explained). Many of the security issues in Flash were exposed in Air as well, so Air had to be updated regularly as well.
    Smith Micro does not want to maintain two different versions of the library, so they phased the AIR version out together with the Flash version.,

    All of this was discussed in threads ar Runtime DNA - including the bypasses I mentioned in the previous posts shortly after P11 was released.

    No need to add anything to LSMGUIAIR, just start it up after you started Poser, it will find all runtimes you have attached before

    I prefer the browser method since it gives me multiple views on the library

    But please stay away from accusing or negative posts if you want to get answers.



  • I tried the external library in Firefox, Chrome and IE, as well as Edge.

    Firefox loaded slow and ran slowly, about like PP11 even now.

    Chrome runs with about as much speed as PP2014's External Library, which is to say it runs well.

    Neither IE nor Edge could load the page at all.

    I bookmarked it, and I really do like the multiple tab facility; it makes the Library a thing of swift joy.

    Thanks for the suggestion; I bookmarked the URL and have an easy way to open multiple Library tabs.

    I've sent you a PM on this other matter.



  • @mpdugas
    On Windows machines, Poser uses a variant of integrated Chromium Embedded Framework as internal browser.
    It is interesting you found Chrome to be much faster....well, Chrome IS more polished than CEF, for sure, but the difference shouldn't be drastic.

    Neither IE nor Edge could load the page at all.
    I don't have any problems running library in IE11. Is it blank or what?
    "Display Logging in Library" option can help with identifying library errors.

    PS: Smith Micro doesn't officially support Poser Library in external browsers, but no one can stop a user from using the library in such way...