External Library in PP11



  • @Glitterati3D

    I started this 'ugly' thread to try to arrive at a solution to the adjust for loss of the external library window; so far, the workarounds suggested to accomplish that make Poser even more unstable. But I am grateful for the suggestions, and I have implemented some of them. I much prefer the external window, though.

    "SM did not have to pay for Air. That is not why it is gone. It's gone because of the users whining about maintaining Flash and Air."

    So you say you are one of those complainers.

    Just how did 'looking funny ' at Adobe break Poser, rendering your installations useless?

    How has removing it from your machines made Poser even a jot more stable?

    What did the external Library window have to do with the security of your system? Were any of your PCs compromised because SM adopted the use of AIR?

    I am curious about why are you making your contribution to this discussion so personal, though.



  • @mpdugas said in External Library in PP11:

    @Glitterati3D

    I am curious about why are you making your contribution to this discussion so personal, though.

    Really? I am making it personal?

    Just a few quotes from this thread before I ever entered it:

    It's gone because of the users whining about maintaining Flash and Air.
    How can they possibly make such a decision based solely on the noise of whining, squeaky people?

    And I'm making it personal? Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha

    And, yes, Flash is so insecure Netscape refuses to allow their users access to it about once every 3 months. And, every Windows update BREAKS Flash/Air. Until Adobe bothers to fix them, you have no access to your Poser libraries.



  • @ghostship I'm not saying/implying there are no problems with the Poser 11 library. I don't have the same issue others do, but I never said they didn't exist.

    My complaint was the personal attacks on other users who don't like the Adobe based libraries.



  • @Glitterati3D

    The term "whiny users" is not mine; I repeated the comment, because it was offered as the primary reason why AIR was removed. I had guessed that it might be an Adobe licensing cost, but I was told otherwise. That said, it does not seem to be inappropriate in the context of this problem.

    The term was not pointed at anyone in particular, but when you entered the conversation, you adopted the phrase as if it was being directed at you. Until you did that, there was nothing personal in the thread at all. No criticism of a great, grey 'they' can be construed as personal.

    How that justified your labeling the whole thread as "serious(ly) ugly" is a mystery to me.

    However, that said, I do apologize if it seems that my remarks, made completely before you contributed anything to the conversation, were somehow being personally directed at you.

    I am, however, interested in learning why you (and perhaps others along with you) made such vigorous complaints to SM that they were willing to remove a very helpful service such as the AIR-driven external Library just to please you.

    I asked you some very specific questions about Flash/Air, because you proffered some scathing remarks about it to justify your obvious contempt for all thing Adobe, but I've never experienced a broken Poser, to the point where no access to any Poser Library was possible, after a Windows update.

    I suppose that keeping Adobe up-to-date is important; all software eventually butts heads with Microsoft's evolving OS, and they have to make periodic adjustments to 're-align' their product with the changes. That has always been part of the Windows landscape, and I am sure it surprises no one to see conflicts arising after MS makes changes.

    If avoiding using such products, like AIR, just because they need to be changed to accommodation OS changes, was the prevailing standard, then I suspect there would be very little left for us to use.

    I have no idea of how Netscape might have any relevance or importance here, but I am interested in why you think it does. Isn't Netscape the origin of Javascript? Doesn't that have security issues as well?

    Do you suppose you could take the time to answer those?





  • @Glitterati3D

    I see.

    Your links add nothing to the conversation at all. First link leads to lots of posts showing that Poser library problems are due to IE11 installation or internal Poser problems.

    No mention of AIR at all.

    Second link is meaningless and adds nothing to the issue.

    You really don't have any substance behind your assertions or complaints about AIR.

    You are, in reality, just a whiner.

    Go whine to SM; maybe they will ban me or whatever.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @mpdugas

    There have been many, many threads complaining about Poser using Flash/Air over the past few years since Poser introduced it in Poser 8. And in the last year or two, Google and Apple have been trying to push out of their OS or browsers in favor of HTML5 and Microsoft is moving towards HTML5 as well.
    So there is a good reason for Poser to move to HTML5 as well.

    Having said that - you can still use the Air library in Poser 11 for loading items. Just start LSMGUIAIR.EXE and you will have that. However, you are not able to save items in the library that way.
    Alternatively, you can start the HTML5 library in your browser and you will have a library which is a separate program. You can even have multiple views open at the same time in different tabs. (to find the URL, just close Poser, set External library to 1 in Poser.ini and start Poser again. It will now tell you the URL). Use this URL in IE or Chrome and it will open up the library.
    However - both of these methods are not supported by Poser, so use at your own risk.

    The Poser method of using its own libary interface with Item view enabled in docking mode and using the Library On/Off button remains the easiest method to use the library



  • @wimvdb

    I like your answer, and I have but one question: of all the threads Glitterati3d linked , I found no mention of AIR causing the problem with the Poser Library, which I am still having, even without AIR. I see IE11, and various Poser configuration errors, but no mention of the problem in the later versions of Poser caused by AIR.

    Notwithstanding that, thanks for the constructive answer; I'm going to give it a try.

    I did, in fact, look for threads about this before I opened this one. Unfortunately, I did not find any.

    When I run the LSMGUIAIR executable, do I have to repopulate the library manually? Can I point it to my LibraryPrefs configuration file somehow?

    Never mind: it eventually repopulated itself.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @mpdugas said in External Library in PP11:

    ntion of AIR

    The Air and Flash version use the same code. At the time the library was developed for Flash, there was no 64 bit version of Flash, so they had to use the AIR libraries - which was able to run as a separate program (as Bagginsbill explained). Many of the security issues in Flash were exposed in Air as well, so Air had to be updated regularly as well.
    Smith Micro does not want to maintain two different versions of the library, so they phased the AIR version out together with the Flash version.,

    All of this was discussed in threads ar Runtime DNA - including the bypasses I mentioned in the previous posts shortly after P11 was released.

    No need to add anything to LSMGUIAIR, just start it up after you started Poser, it will find all runtimes you have attached before

    I prefer the browser method since it gives me multiple views on the library

    But please stay away from accusing or negative posts if you want to get answers.



  • I tried the external library in Firefox, Chrome and IE, as well as Edge.

    Firefox loaded slow and ran slowly, about like PP11 even now.

    Chrome runs with about as much speed as PP2014's External Library, which is to say it runs well.

    Neither IE nor Edge could load the page at all.

    I bookmarked it, and I really do like the multiple tab facility; it makes the Library a thing of swift joy.

    Thanks for the suggestion; I bookmarked the URL and have an easy way to open multiple Library tabs.

    I've sent you a PM on this other matter.



  • @mpdugas
    On Windows machines, Poser uses a variant of integrated Chromium Embedded Framework as internal browser.
    It is interesting you found Chrome to be much faster....well, Chrome IS more polished than CEF, for sure, but the difference shouldn't be drastic.

    Neither IE nor Edge could load the page at all.
    I don't have any problems running library in IE11. Is it blank or what?
    "Display Logging in Library" option can help with identifying library errors.

    PS: Smith Micro doesn't officially support Poser Library in external browsers, but no one can stop a user from using the library in such way...



  • @admin

    It may have been just a session problem; re-booting the machine for another reason has made the Firefox performance comparable to Chrome.

    Chrome is not my first browser choice.

    If not for this "unapproved" use, I would be asking for a refund right now; SM's approved 'solution' to the Library issue is very poor.

    I still have a couple of weeks to go before I make my final decision on PP11. This is not the only problem I am experiencing with PP11.



  • @mpdugas
    Are you saying both FF and Chrome offer much better performance than Poser integrated browser?



  • @admin

    in answer to your simple question:

    TL;DR: Yes, omg YES!

    I started this post because I could not find the option to use the external Library function that I had enjoyed in previous Poser versions.

    People here were kind enough to inform me that SM had decided to remove the AIR library due to complaints about the use of Adobe products in Poser.

    That left me with a docked Library window that was altogether too small to be of any use to me, since I have a large number of linked runtimes which I have developed over the years.

    The only choice that I had, then, was to undock the Library box, and enlarge it to fill the Poser workspace.

    That created two problems:

    1. the open Library window obscured all of the Poser workspace tools, since it was always foreground, and
    2. the performance of Poser suffered horribly, and the enlarged Library box was sluggish and unresponsive to input.

    I think the AIR solution was a brilliant idea, and I have always used an external library when that option was available. I have never suffered any Adobe-related problems with Poser or my system, but I recognize that others have strong, negative opinions about Adobe.

    However, the negative effect of the enlarged undocked Library, which I think is what you meant by the "Poser integrated browser", was so severe that I was about to request a refund. It was unstable, it would go blank unexpectedly, and would often change my preference settings without my input.

    It was, in a word, unusable.

    The external browser window which I now use, either in Firefox or Chrome, is substantially better than the native Poser box which represents the Library.

    I am very grateful for the suggestions posed by Wimvdb and others; without that facility, I would have abandoned Poser altogether.



  • My two cents. I guess I would fall into the "whiner" category as one who hates on Adobe Flash, Air, Reader, etc due to the constant barrage of updates. I never actually whined about it in any forums though, more like grumbled to myself about it. As for the Poser library problem, I rarely use it except for adding runtimes so Poser can find the files it needs to load content. My runtime libraries are totally unmanageable as far as actually finding what I want in there, just a HUGE mess. Partially due to content developers using really dumb names for stuff, I have no idea what figure a !!_Red Dress is supposed to fit as a example.!!!_, and much of it came from Daz that way. At first I had many small runtimes each dedicated to a certain type of content, but it was even worse to find stuff that way. Then I played around with Daz Studio when it first came out and it could only handle a couple of runtimes without crying. Finally I settled on one (mainly) huge runtime, what a mess. My solution using P3DO and PX together has worked perfectly for me for many years now, but it is getting long in the tooth and with newer versions of Windoze coming out and new Poser versions coming out it gets a bit harder to keep it going. I hope someone comes out with something new soon that is easy to use and allows a person to organize content in a sane manner.



  • @ribroast I have my library organized. It's easy to do, no need of a script. Just open up the library on you r desktop and organize things the way you can find them. Then when you get new stuff you put it in the places that YOU want so you can find them.

    0_1477632965937_Library.jpg



  • That was a thoughtful and comprehensive reply, so thank you for that suggestion!

    I have 49 separate runtimes that I link to Poser, so the embedded (docked) window was simply useless to me. If I opened it up big enough in the main Poser window to actually see my stuff, it would obscure the whole working space.

    Dropping the external library was a significant step backward and for such a meaningless rationalization.

    I really dislike the whole Poser UI that has been in place for a while now; it looks like it was designed by an engineer, not an artist.

    Doesn't anyone remember when you could put work elements anywhere on the program screen that was sensible and useful to you? This 'box-style' thing is too rigid, inflexible and confining.

    The use of a separate browser to access the runtimes in tabs was a good idea, but not supported. So there is that. Good idea and easily one that could have been integrated into Poser seamlessly. Not supported.

    I don't know what motivates SM. I only react to my experience, so I will keep my PP2014 and am awaiting my refund on PP11; it just had too many problems to be worth even the heavily discounted price.

    All good things come to an end, I suppose. Poser may be one of them, unfortunately.

    I will, however, take a look at your suggestions for using the P3Do utility with PP2014.



  • Sorry but my previous post did not post completely. Half of it ended up in italics, and when I tried to edit, most of it was lost. I learned the hard way to copy and paste stuff like that to a text file so here is what I meant to say: Paste
    My two cents. I guess I would fall into the "whiner" category as one who hates on Adobe Flash, Air, Reader, etc due to the constant barrage of updates. I never actually whined about it in any forums though, more like grumbled to myself about it. As for the Poser library problem, I rarely use it except for adding runtimes so Poser can find the files it needs to load content. My runtime libraries are totally unmanageable as far as actually finding what I want in there, just a HUGE mess. Partially due to content developers using really dumb names for stuff, like I have no idea what figure a !!_Red Dress is supposed to fit as a example.
    My solution (Windoze Only) is to use a program called P3Do Explorer (Senosoft) in conjunction with another program called PX (Dimmension3D) as my library. P3Do is a explorer like program optimized for Poser (and Studio) files and it runs totally independent of Poser. PX is a shell extension for Windows that adds context sensitive entries on the Windows right click menu depending on what type of Poser file you right click on. For instance, R-clicking on a cr2 file shows "Conform to..." and R-clicking on a pz2 file shows "Apply To..." and so on. There is more than one option for each Poser file type. PX works on shortcuts to Poser files as well and P3Do uses shortcuts to organize your content in a way that makes sense to you. So you would have to create those shortcuts for it all before you could really benefit from P3Do. What I did years ago (Poser user since P4, every version to present) was to create a brand new runtime and install everything from scratch, logging it all in P3Do as I went. So if I installed a outfit for V3 I would create a shortcut in a V3 folder in P3Do like: Daz People, V3, Clothing, Category (Fantasy, Sci-Fi, Etc...) Item (The outfit) and I would put shortcuts for all of that outfits stuff in there. And I did this for everything, Props, Lights, everything in folders that make sense to me. Its a big job but when its done such a joy to work with. PX came along a few years later, and when I realized I could use it from within P3Do Explorer, that was a good day. You don't need P3Do Explorer to use PX, you can use it from Windows explorer if you wish, but P3Do has many Poser tools and a preview window which is nice. The library of shortcuts you create in P3Do resides at: C:\Users\Username\AppData\Roaming\Senosoft\P3dO Explorer\Favorites. This is a folder that gets backed up so I can restore it as needed. It is very important to use a consistent path for your runtime from one computer to another so it will work on different machines. My runtime libraries are on a server (Debian) and I always map the drive to W:\ in Windoze but that is up to you. If your runtime is in the Documents folder under a certain username and the path is different on the next computer your shortcuts won't work and I have not been able to figure out how to change the path inside of a shortcut. This system worked so good for me for many years up to Windows 8. P3Do Explorer shows icons for content just like the stock Poser library and hides the .cr2 files etc, well ever since Win 8 I could not load Poser content through the right click menu (PX) anymore as poser thought I was conforming a PNG file to put it simply. Took me awhile to figure out a easy fix. In P3Do explorer go to Tools, Options, General and check Split Associates. Now you will see all of the files and you must right click on the cr2 instead of the PNG icon in order for it to work. Kind of a bummer but it still works anyways. The next pitfall I experienced using PX came about a year ago when I bought a Canon Camera, which uses the .cr2 extension for its RAW picture files. Then Irfanview ended up as the default program for cr2's and broke PX. I know how to change the default program (mimetype in oldspeak) to Poser Content file but PX still thinks it is broke, showing a red X in front of the cr2 extension in the setup utility. I fixed this once before but I can not remember how. I think I had to use regedit, but this is a Windoze problem anyways. I currently have one computer that works and one that don't at the moment. I'll get it sorted back out when I put my mind to it. At any rate, as long as Poser owns all of its filetypes you won't have a problem such as this. With new hardware every so many years and new versions of Windows and Poser it can be a bit of a task to maintain, but I've carried this content management system along for many years and across quite a few different computers . I simply could not enjoy using Poser much without it. I am aware of the favorites system in modern Poser but I was doing it this way for some time before that was added to Poser and I've never used it much. I'm not sure if it could be backed up and restored or moved to a new machine easily.
    Another Poser library I use is a python based solution by Dimmension3D called XL - eXtended Library for Poser. It works exactly like the stock Poser content library but it runs in its own window, can be maximized or resized like a Windows window and you can drag it onto a different monitor. I use it mainly for stuff I created myself so I know where and what it is. My huge runtime is just as much of a disaster and finding anything specific in there is nearly as bad.
    When I started out with Poser 4 I soon realized what a pain content management was going to be and I'd better figure out a system to deal with it. At first I had many small runtimes each dedicated to a certain type of content, but it was even worse to find stuff that way. Then I played around with Daz Studio when it first came out and it could only handle a couple of runtimes without crying. Finally I settled on one (mainly) huge runtime, what a mess. My solution using P3DO and PX together has worked perfectly for me for many years now, but it is getting long in the tooth and with newer versions of Windoze coming out and new Poser versions coming out it gets a bit harder to keep it going. I hope someone comes out with something new soon that is easy to use and allows a person to organize content in a sane manner.



  • @ghostship Interesting. Not exactly sure what I'm looking at, I mean is this the figure library, right? I suppose there's no damage in renaming folders in there. Brilliant really, never thought of it myself. My runtime has nearly a half million files in it at this point. That's everything including folders, jpg's, cr2's, etc. Not a half million pairs of shoes, but everything that goes into a runtime. But there is a heck of a lot of content there. In my system I have all the materials, figures, props, lights or anything that came with a particular product all in it's own folder. Shortcuts that is to it all. It was a lot of work to set up initially, but easy to maintain and I can re-create it on a new computer by simply copying one folder and installing a couple of programs. Did you move, say MAT files to the Character folder or do you organize it all independently? At any rate, thanks for making me think a little bit outside of the box. I have created many of my own cr2 files and understand how Poser uses a relative path from within the cr2 to locate the files it needs to work. You are absolutely correct to do what you did. I've never changed another artist's directory structure myself, never thought of it. Nothing wrong with doing that though. I set my system up many years ago and I update it as content is added. I just fear that I am a Windows update or a Poser version away from it breaking down for good. Still works with Poser 11 and Win 10 for now. I could improve on my system by taking your idea and incorporating it into mine. That way if my software becomes obsolete it would not be nearly as painful. And I could actually find something from within Poser if I felt like it. I would have to start with a fresh runtime and install it all from scratch, organizing as I went. A project for another day I'm afraid.



  • @mpdugas You should give something like XL - eXtended Library for Poser a chance before you throw in the towel. It is a python, therefore runs from within Poser, but it runs in it's own window and act's like a Windows (or Mac) program. You can drag it onto a different monitor and switch focus from the task bar, but it is nested with Poser there. But hey, if you don't like Poser 11 by all means, cash it in for a refund. The library has always been Poser's weakest asset for me, but with 3rd party apps and scripts I've learned to live with it. I never did like the fact that Poser was dependent on Flash in order to use it, so I am happy that it is no longer the case. I would not want to give up the morph brushes or some of the other fantastic features that have been implemented over the years in favor of a better library. Most of the problem with the library is not really Smith Micro's fault anyways. It is the lack of a standard from the get go and the people who develop the content (God bless them) naming stuff in a manner that makes no sense whatsoever. Seriously, at the top of my main runtime there are like a hundred folders that start with some combination of !!!_, just in an attempt to get to the top of the list. In the end it totally defeats the purpose. Thanks to ghostship's post it looks like I will be re-visiting this problem and doing some serious restructuring in there.