So frustrated about working with 3D by now



  • Hello folks,

    this is just a post to vent frustration about 3D works of late.

    1. The enmity between DAZ and Poser: it dates not back that far, that we could use the M4/V4 generation in Poser and be perfectly happy with it. The first backlash came with the DSON Importer, which worked badly, if at all. The issues between DAZ models and Poser software increased since then, by my opinion. Don't get me wrong, I think DAZ Studio is a good software producing great results, but it is as inaccessible as a soviet nuclear power plant when you con't even read Cyrillic script. Poser is far, far on the positive side in this.
      But, let's be honest: the delivered Poser content is plain crap. All I use from that is an occasional primitive, now and then.
      I know, this problem is as much addressed towards DAZ than it is to Smith Micro and I already ranted about it in DAZ's forum. Nonetheless, the 3rd generation of DAZ's figures made me starting to work with Studio as well, but I so much would like to stay with Poser. Yet, if the content stays that poor, I fear there's no need to buy Poser 12.

    2. I just wrote it into the respective thread: Poser gets no love from the developers. How else can it be explained that an issue ('hither' camera setting not working in FireFly) is a known issue from PP 2014 but it still isn't solved in Poser 11 with SR 5 installed? Plain and simple, obviously no one is even trying to solve it.

    3. SuperFly. I mean... slow is an extendable term, but SuperFly is slow even in a geological meaning, not in a computer meaning. Rendering takes time, I know that, I use Reality and Iray as well, but even these are even blinding fast in comparison. Is it meant to be that slow?

    So far, my two cents. I started with a trial version of Poser 4 and bought Poser 5 at it's release date. I really used to be a supporter for years, but I'm just a hobbyist, so keep potential 'make your own models'-comments with you. At the moment, I'm really tempted to learn the use of DAZ Studio, cumbersome it might be. Please, give me a reason to stay true with Poser by letting the performance not fall too far behind its accessability.

    P.S.: When do we get a particle system?



  • At the end of the day you're the only person who can decide if you'll move to daz studio.

    The riff between Poser users and Daz3D isn't a new event, it's been going on for years now and there are many reasons why Poser users drifted from Daz3D even before the release of Genesis 1.

    For consumers it's always sad and a little annoying when you're unable to use add on products in the software you like.

    For many, Poser would remain viable with new high quality native figures on par with those made by Daz3d, that use the new features of Poser.

    To be honest I don't think it'll happen any time soon.



  • I've been struggling with a similar dilemma over the last year or two. In some regards I feel that Daz is making much greater strides in the content area of 3D rendering. However, I think that part of my viewpoint on that is that I've never really worked with the figures that come with Poser. I have almost exclusively worked with V4 since learning Poser.

    So I have decided that I need to learn Superfly and then try Poser's figures before I actually make a decision. Maybe you have already done this, but I would suggest really delving into Poser's latest figures and really learning them before deciding that another product is better.



  • Hi there

    As above you need to decide with which SW you want to stay,personally I use Poser and DS together,I usually export G3F or G2F or some props which are not Poser compatible as OBJ or FBX and render them inside Poser

    Regarding the content,that's has been pain with every Poser,not sure how this can be better resolved than asking content creators to support Poser and this can be big ask for many of content creators

    I still use V4 and M4 or even older figures like is V3,TY etc and I'm very happy with them,content for them is largely available ..Most of new content for G3F is recycling of old content which you can buy for V4 etc

    SuperFly is slow,yes it is,but this is mostly dependent on yours HW,IRAY is too not the fastest render engine and Reality this depends too on more factors

    Decision is yours,only you can decide which SW to use and which not,I use like DS and Poser and this work for me,although I prefer to render and work with Poser as Poser UI is much better for my liking

    Hope this helps

    Thanks,Jura



  • Just my opinion, but as long as you keep trying to force old technology (V4) into technology developed for newer rigging and render engines, you'll see the frustration grow.

    Think about it this way...you've gone out an bought a new computer with all the bells and whistles.

    Then, you throw in a 10 year old video card to run the display.

    What's going to happen is you'll have a great, new computer with a lousy display.

    Here is a classic example........DawnSE (rigged and designed to take advantage of Poser's advanced technology) in a Load, Pose, Render environment. It's simply not appropriate to compare V4 and Genesis3 - they are 2 very different technologies. You're trying to compare apples and oranges.

    0_1475170986751_Alley.jpg



  • @Glitterati3D Yep, I agree with you. That is why I am trying to slowly change my ways. Lol!

    Btw, that is a wonderful render. She looks stunning and I love that dress. :)



  • @mr_phoenyxx Thank you!



  • @Glitterati3D

    Looks great there

    Regarding the V4,many of us still use her and I use her too mainly,but I use like her and Dawn too and Pauline too looks good too,not enough content,I usually convert my older content for them if I need them

    Hope this helps

    Thanks,Jura



  • @jura11 I understand, Jura, that many still use V4.

    That wasn't my point, actually.

    My point was that you can't expect something 10 years old to behave like new technology.

    For example, would you expect your old monitor to behave the same as your new 4K monitor? That was the point I was trying to make.

    Just bear in mind that you're still using 10 yr old technology (V4) and can't expect it to behave like new tech.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @Mace
    Please go to YouTube and search for the "Poser2Blender2Poser" series.

    Video 1 shows the correct procedures to work with Poser meshes in Blender.

    Video 2 to 5 (more to come when my hand gets better) show how to improve ALL native Poser meshes to your liking. => The amount of detail you can get in there is amazing.

    Digital content does not "age", and we get better tools every day to improve it.

    Then the fitting room and the Morph brush "fitting brush" can take care of the clothing for you.

    best regards, Tony



  • Smith Micro have always been fools in the way that they have developed Poser. Every cent they waste on bundled content is a cent not spent making sure that the program is all it could be. They have constantly tried to encroach upon DAZ's territory, and as a result of a number of really stupid interactions with DAZ, and plain shitty business decisions, they encouraged DAZ to take their own rival software seriously. I HATE the figure compatibility issues, and I hold DAZ completely responsible for that.

    But if you want a reason to stick with Poser - and it's my number 1 reason - the material room. DAZ does not come remotely close to Poser, especially now that it Poser has Superfly. Poser's procedural materials open so many doors, and without them, life would be SO much harder.

    As for the speed of the Superfly renderer, I can only assume that you've never rendered with a PBR renderer in any other professional program. Just take a look at the back cover of most issues of 3D artist or 3D World magazine, and you'll see a single image under which will be the words "Rendered with 3000 processors" or more recently "Rendered with 4000 processors". The ads are selling the services of render farms because even single frame rendering on a desktop computer is agonisingly slow once you start making the images look real.

    I am pretty disgusted with many of the development decisions made by both companies and it's in BOTH of their interests to resolve them and start working together. The fact that M4 and V4 still account for such a large percentage of figure sales should be a massive warning shot to DAZ, and the fact that something like 70% of users use DAZ Studio instead of Poser should be enough to make Smith Micro pay attention.

    The incompatibility between both programs hurts BOTH of their markets, and whilst each of them tried and failed to make a power grab, it's time to put the customers first. DAZ needs to offer full native support for DAZ's figure technology (morphing etc) inside Poser, and Smith Micro needs to build in face room support for DAZ's figures.

    But unfortunately egos as well as bad business leadership became involved, and now everybody is paying the price.



  • @matb It's too early in the morning to be drinking heavily, matb. Poser has never tried to encroach on DAZ's territory. If anything, it's the other way around. DAZ exists because of Poser. Pure and simple. And you're talking to someone who has spoken out since DAZ first started developing Studio.



  • @eclark1849 Oh do me a favour. Without DAZ (and later Renderosity), Poser would be nothing. Yes Poser came first, but it was the DAZ marketplace that exploded the market so that it became a complete graphical solution rather than simply a digital version of a wooden posing tool.

    Yes, Poser came first, just as the automobile preceded gasoline, but is anyone in any doubt which would survive without the other?

    For a long time both companies had a healthy synergistic relationship, then there were a series of events that harmed that relationship. If you don't think that including 7GB of (largely shitty and stupidly eclectic) content and not supporting DAZ's main figures was not taking a shot across that company's bows, then I can only assume that YOU are the one who has been at the bottle.

    And whilst we're talking history, you might wanna go back and check again - DAZ was making stand alone models for the professional 3D market in their earlier incarnation.



  • @matb You know, matb, none of us were there. We do not know the facts. We can do nothing more than perpetuate gossip.

    We would all be better off if EVERYONE would quit doing that and just understand the environment as it is today. Make your choices on what IS, not what you wish was.



  • @matb Poser survived up to three versions before DAZ became anywhere near the entity it is today. Even to the point of where the P4 woman was giving Vicky a run for her money content-wise. In fact, I didn't even buy anything from DAZ for a long time, mainly because there was so much free stuff on the net . I finally got around to buying Vicky 1 just before the Vicky 2 upgrade came out.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    One basic and bare V4 and M4 are on my HD's solely for testing purposes.

    All the rest is done using native Poser content. => But yes, they visit Blender about a gazillion times a day. LOL. The object file, the rigging and the textures all got major surgery. LOL.

    As for the history lessons?

    Poser was first. But the OP is right. => The native Poser figures SUCK.

    That is were DAZ came into view. => They made better figures capturing the Poser content market.

    Then they wanted the app market also and having the content market in the bag, they charged for the app too. => That failed. => So they made the app for free.

    SM's response was to give us better tools.

    Basically that's were we are now.

    Me?
    Ha-ha-ha: My market is a simple one.
    => If you can not give it away? => Feel free to keep it.

    Many-many -many-MANY years ago, I bought 3 items => Regretted all 3 of them.
    The were not worth the vertex build from, nor the pixels textured with.

    I SWORE to never-ever buy content again.
    Simple and sticking to it.



  • @vilters In fairness, it was not DAZ's original intention to make DS commercial - or rather, it was always their intention to make the main consumer app free. They saw that Poser's future was uncertain, and as their substantial livelihood depended upon it they started planning survival strategies. An incident occurred between them and SM that created a divide between them and that rift just grew and grew.

    They didn't "charge for the app market", and if you look at the user numbers, they have definitely not failed as DS is in use something like 2 or 3 to 1 over Poser.

    Your content policy seems odd. Surely you must know that much of today's content is superb? Do you seriously expect people who have spent weeks crafting to simply give it away for free?



  • @eclark1849 There's a massive difference between survival and thriving. When Daz hit the third generation figures, and SM/Metacreations was still producing figures that looked like they had Downs syndrome (something they still continue to do incidentally), a gap started to develop, and whilst there is undoubtedly a percentage of the user base that sticks with out of the box content, the majority of users quickly start to use content from third parties.

    I am curious though - in what capacity do you use the program?



  • @Glitterati3D Actually I was there in a manner of speaking.



  • @matb You were an employee of SM or DAZ? If not, then no you were not there.

    Not anymore than the rest of watching from the outside looking in. And none of US have the facts. We have nothing more than conjecture and gossip.


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