material sampler for the P11 construct




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    I think my old 64bit Vista laptop Pixie has a full version of PhotoShop; I'll have to fire her up and see.

    Here is a full spherical HDR, 8192x4096, weighing in at a whopping 102MB: bad weather HDR spherical
    Somebody let me know what bit depth it is. Does this do the trick? Will it be worthwhile for me to run a series of these renders?

    This is how you would modify the construct shader to use a spherical sky render: Set V_scale to 2, and set V_offset to -1.
    0_1476445214282_material setup for spherical map on construct.PNG





  • @seachnasaigh This is really exciting! And you aren't the only one learning a few things. :D

    In a perfect world, we would have both options:

    A smaller file sized image that only covers a hemisphere, and then an image with a larger file size that can be used on a full sphere. This would give us the option of using whichever was appropriate to the scene we were building.

    That is probably a lot of extra work, but I just wanted to give you that feedback. :)


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    @mr_phoenyxx said in material sampler for the P11 construct:

    @seachnasaigh
    In a perfect world, we would have both options:

    A smaller file sized image that only covers a hemisphere, and then an image with a larger file size that can be used on a full sphere. This would give us the option of using whichever was appropriate to the scene we were building.

    That is probably a lot of extra work, but I just wanted to give you that feedback. :)

    If I can crop and re-save, retaining HDR quality, I will do exactly that; full sphericals for the Envirosphere, and hemispherical panos for the construct. It wouldn't be much extra work. The only question is whether I can.


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    @seachnasaigh - There are several file formats that a 32 bit image can be saved as, the common ones being OpenEXR (suffix = .exr) and RadianceHDR (.hdr). You can also save a 32 bit TIFF, & I'm sure there are some others. So from your render options screenshot that image should certainly be 32 bit.

    Also on that render options dialog, I would suggest leaving the Panoramic View at 360 for H angle and 180 for V angle but try using the Render Area option - it might be possible to tell Vue to render the top half of the panorama by changing the Y position.


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    The network is busy right now, but I'll experiment with the render area variables and see if I can get the elusive hemispherical render. That does seem promising.

    If you can tolerate the 102MB download, you could play with the full spherical HDR (hotlink copied from above).


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    Downloading, will have a play tomorrow - thank you!


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    @caisson - You are right about the area render option, but... if area render is engaged, networked rendering becomes disabled.

    It will be quicker to network full sphericals and then crop them, than it would be to render a hemispherical pano using only one computer.

    Full spherical HDR of the Island Sunset sky took 23h39m using fifteen dual-hex processors.alt text That's at 81921x4096 pixels, at superior render quality.


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    @seachnasaigh - ouch, there's always something ;) That's quite insane times!!

    Have had a quick play with the rendered sky & didn't think it had the sort of range I would expect. So did some searching - do you get any post-render settings dialog or options before saving the render at all? Film response, exposure, gamma etc that sort of thing?


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    Pink Paradise is even worse than Island Sunset as a rendering challenge. It's a lot of time because I'm rendering the entire sky, including the horizon -where clouds in view increase exponentially- at large pixel dimension and very high quality. Plus, I'm intentionally choosing atmospheres which are very tough to render.
    The idea is to leverage my server rack to provide skies which most Poser folk could never produce for themselves.
    With my hardware -and extra RenderCow licensing- it's certainly still a tough job, but it's doable. And Poserdom gets nice skies added to their repertoire.

    Regarding post-render options; I've seen them when doing internal (single machine) renders, but it isn't active if networking, and it just isn't feasible to do this with one machine. I do see an exposure adjust in the camera parameters.


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    edit: got blocked by the edit time limit.

    Pink Paradise is even worse than Island Sunset as a rendering challenge. It's a lot of time because I'm rendering the entire sky, including the horizon -where clouds in view increase exponentially- at large pixel dimension and very high quality. Plus, I'm intentionally choosing atmospheres which are very tough to render.
    The idea is to leverage my server rack to provide skies which most Poser folk could never produce for themselves.
    With my hardware -and extra RenderCow licensing- it's certainly still a tough job, but it's doable. And Poserdom gets nice skies added to their repertoire.

    Regarding post-render options; I've seen them when doing internal (single machine) renders, but it isn't active if networking, and it just isn't feasible to do this with one machine. I do see an exposure adjust in the camera parameters.
    0_1476620800539_Vue camera parameters - aspects tab.PNG

    There might be something useful in the G-buffer and multi-pass options...
    0_1476620862142_Vue network render options.PNG

    Oh, if I set the output to HDR, I get no options at all under that, but if I select EXR, I see options for bitness (16bit, and 32bit is available in both integer and floating point) and compression.
    0_1476620999427_Vue EXR options.png


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    @seachnasaigh - under the multi-pass buffer there is a Post Process listed under Render Components. Can you set any options there or is it just an on/off switch?

    32 bit floating point should be the best quality option so I'd go for EXR; compression I'm not sure about - I'd be tempted to save as uncompressed as it can always get re-saved with compression later if needed.

    For just testing options, how long does rendering take if the size is dropped to something like 1024x512?


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    @caisson said in material sampler for the P11 construct:

    @seachnasaigh - under the multi-pass buffer there is a Post Process listed under Render Components. Can you set any options there or is it just an on/off switch?

    Looks like it's just on/off; I'll need to run a test using it to see if something appears post-render.

    @caisson said in material sampler for the P11 construct:

    @seachnasaigh - 32 bit floating point should be the best quality option so I'd go for EXR; compression I'm not sure about - I'd be tempted to save as uncompressed as it can always get re-saved with compression later if needed.

    That sounds like good advice.

    @caisson said in material sampler for the P11 construct:

    @seachnasaigh - For just testing options, how long does rendering take if the size is dropped to something like 1024x512?

    Yeah, I intend to use a smaller pixel dimension and a lower quality (final) for testing; once we get this figured out, then I'll go full sized and superior quality. reducing pixel dimension and render quality level will make a huge difference in render time. I could also test with an easier atmosphere; that will also reduce test render time considerably.

    I had a Pink Paradise render going, but aborted it because I needed to run some Poser Queue tests. Once all that is done, I'll do some reduced size/quality/atmo-complexity tests with Vue.


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    Using an easier atmo at 1024x512 at "final" quality, Urania finished the render before I could even get a second machine's name typed in.alt text
    The post process box only seems to have gotten me a black PNG saved to my folder, but no options for tweaking the main render, which saved automatically.

    Also, Poser shows the EXR clearly in the browse window, but the image map window just goes black. Renders black, too.
    0_1476627480784_EXR not showing in Poser.PNG


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    Hmm. Wonder where the options for post process are entered? This is the info I found at eon. Not that I'm sure that they are relevant, but they could be ;)

    Black rendering - there could be an alpha channel or layer in the EXR, it's a possibility. If those settings in the image map node are the same ones you've used before I can't think of anything else - I've used EXR format in Poser before. With 32 bit images you will want to set custom gamma to 1 as they are linear data, but I wouldn't think that would cause a black render.


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    @caisson said in material sampler for the P11 construct:

    Hmm. Wonder where the options for post process are entered? This is the info I found at eon. Not that I'm sure that they are relevant, but they could be ;)

    That window pops up automatically at the end of internal (non-networked) rendering; I have yet to find any way to get it with a networked render.

    @caisson said in material sampler for the P11 construct:

    Black rendering - there could be an alpha channel or layer in the EXR, it's a possibility. If those settings in the image map node are the same ones you've used before I can't think of anything else - I've used EXR format in Poser before. With 32 bit images you will want to set custom gamma to 1 as they are linear data, but I wouldn't think that would cause a black render.

    I'll look for embedded alpha in the EXR render settings. Gamma=1 for EXR, got it.


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    Aha - the post process settings are also in the advanced camera settings! Looking at the docs, under Film Settings there should be an option for Linear Exposure, & it should be possible to set that to either Map Entire Range or enter a custom value (1 would mean no scaling of colours). The reason I think this is important for producing an HDR is that you want to capture the biggest range of data possible.


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    I can't find an advanced camera settings menu. I wonder if that might be relatively new; my version is Vue Infinite 2014.7
    If I do find advanced camera settings, I'll know what to look for.

    Good news about EXR: It had alpha embedded; I shut that off, and now Poser reads it. Bad news: uncompressed, the EXR is 384MB! 321MB zipped. I'm trying to upload the zip to Dropbox; hoping you can evaluate its dynamic range. I'll post a download link when/if it finishes.


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