material sampler for the P11 construct


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    @caisson said in material sampler for the P11 construct:

    ...under Film Settings there should be an option for Linear Exposure, & it should be possible to set that to either Map Entire Range or enter a custom value (1 would mean no scaling of colours). The reason I think this is important for producing an HDR is that you want to capture the biggest range of data possible.

    I found it! :D It isn't there until you select the linear response filter.
    0_1477396781499_map entire range.PNG

    On the other hand, the first time I tried it, Vue crashed/quit. I restarted Vue, and get back to this window, and poke the "OK" near bottom right, but no response. The button turns blue when I'm clicking on it, but nothing seems to happen. I'm going to let it sit for a while - maybe it takes some time to re-map the response range?

    Cameron has been running a decent -not great- atmo for the last three days; she might be finished tomorrow. Trying to do this with a single machine is daunting. Galadriel is running on a different license, so I can have her running other chores concurrently.

    (Possible) good news: I think that it is possible to load a previously completed render into Vue and open the post render option. If so, that would mean I could use my network to grind out those beautiful (but tough to render) atmos, and then load the finished networked render for post work - specifically, apply linear exposure : map entire range. If Vue doesn't just crash.


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    @seachnasaigh - oh now that looks interesting, good find!

    Question - if you untick Map entire range, does it let you change the Linear Coefficient setting? If it does it may also be worth trying that set to 1.

    Also, does turning off Interactive display make any difference?

    Plus, if you can reload a completed render, would it be possible to then save out multiple versions at different exposures? 'Cause that definitely works ;)

    Totally agree, you really need to render these skies on a network - awesome work you're doing!


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    Going back to the treeline part of the project, there is no separate alpha dithering/antialiasing available - the antialiasing box I recalled seeing was only for Z-depth.
    I'll try loading a treeline alpha for post render editing and see if I can get antialiasing that way.

    While map entire range is unticked, I can indeed set linear coefficient. I set it at 1. When I tick map entire range, Vue resets the linear coefficient and greys it out so that I can't change it back.

    For a night sky, Full Moon, Vue set the linear coefficient at 1.36
    Full Moon

    Sunday Morning (wow, Vue reset the linear coefficient to 0.07)

    I believe that saving out different exposures of networked renders will work, though the attempt failed yesterday. That failure was due to a Vue crash, but I think the idea will work.

    importing networked renders (EXR, HDR) did enable the post-render options window, but when I set them to "map entire range" and saved them, I got bad/empty files.
    I tried EXR->EXR, HDR->HDR, HDR->EXR, etc.

    If the small dimension rough renders set for "map entire range" work, then we can use that method for atmospheres which are fairly easy to render. For those gorgeous sunsets and godrays, those can only be rendered on a network, and then use the method of saving out a bracket of exposures, unless we can find a way to access "map entire range" when using the external renderer offscreen.

    Meantime, I'll poke and prod a bit, trying various combinations of options to see if I can get something useful.



  • @seachnasaigh I really appreciate all your work and experimentation with this!


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    @mr_phoenyxx - Thank you; with @caisson 's high dynamic range knowledge and his help solving problems with Vue, I'm confident that we'll achieve a set of high resolution HDR skies for the construct. :D

    This was internally rendered to screen so as to have the post render options available. I set it to map entire range. It's a 308MB zip, but then, it's a prototype finished product.

    Sunday Morning 8192x4096 spherical EXR

    Does this yield the full dynamic range?


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    @seachnasaigh - sorry, meant to post yesterday but knackered from work. One comment - I think that if you untick Map entire range & set the Linear Coefficient to 1, you're telling Vue to record every pixel value no matter what it is, which in 32 bit images is a good thing. (Yeah, I'm not certain of this!)

    The first thing I'd say about Sunday Morning is that sunrise doesn't have the same dynamic range as when the sun is higher. It is, to me, far far better than the first ones like Day Begins. Using Substance Painter with it's demo asset, I've tried loading several HDR panoramas in to use as environment maps in the viewport. The best is still the one made from several different exposures (High Altitude I think) - but that also has a higher dynamic range as the sun position is higher. Hard to judge - I don't think that Sunday Morning has a good range though as things stand.

    So, apologies for being a pain, but I'm going to ask for the exact same sky rendered in low res - 1024 should be enough - in 3 versions.

    1. Map entire range ticked and saved as EXR.
    2. Map entire range unticked and Linear Coefficient set to 1; saved as EXR.
    3. Bracketed exposures (say +6 to -6 in 1 step increments); saved as 16 bit TIFF's

    This should be the best way to judge clearly which will give the greatest dynamic range!


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @caisson said in material sampler for the P11 construct:

    So, apologies for being a pain, but I'm going to ask for the exact same sky rendered in low res - 1024 should be enough - in 3 versions.

    1. Map entire range ticked and saved as EXR.
    2. Map entire range unticked and Linear Coefficient set to 1; saved as EXR.
    3. Bracketed exposures (say +6 to -6 in 1 step increments); saved as 16 bit TIFF's

    This should be the best way to judge clearly which will give the greatest dynamic range!

    Nothing to apologize for; this is what it takes to get a working technique figured out.

    I have Galadriel and Cameron each rendering a sky now; when they finish, I'll export to each of those three methods.


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    That would be grand, thanks!


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    I'll be saving these files out this morning, @caisson
    The Baie Mahault sky was rendered at 4096x2048 and final quality, so it will be usable to make a finished product, and it's a pretty sky.

    But I have an additional idea; I'll re-use the exact same scene, but adjust the sun position higher in the sky. Then you'll be able to compare two sets of data with only sun elevation distinguishing them.


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    These are 4096x2048 spherical panoramas of Baie Mahault, at sunset:

    1] map entire range, EXR (coefficient was 0.17) 96MB

    2} linear coefficient = 1, EXR 96MB

    3} bracketed exposures, -6 to +6 step 1, 16bit TIFFs 446MB

    Galadriel is currently working on the higher sun position version; I'll post that set once the render finishes.


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    @seachnasaigh - thank you, I'll let you know how it goes!


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    @seachnasaigh - ok, forget about the linear coefficient to 1, that's not very good.

    Personally I think the bracketed one is the best - Baie Mahault exr

    The Map entire range version is also good but the one above edges it out for me.

    Anyone else out there who wants to test these?



  • I've been watching this thread. I too have Vue (2014) but no render farm, so seachnsaigh's and your input have been of much interest. I am working in parallel on my own to come up with lighting that can be worked with Snarrly's dome. Keep up the good work. You obviously have more knowledge than I.


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    @parkdalegardener - Vue Infinite 2014 and Vue Exstream 2014 licenses come with five RenderCows; if you have Infinite or Exstream, you can run the Vue installer on any available extra computers, but select to install network renderer : RenderCow instead of installing Vue.

    If I remember correctly, Vue Compleat 2014 allowed for buying five-cow addon packs.
    If your version of Vue 2014 came with a five cow pack, then the network render button (orange box) in the render options will be active when external renderer is selected.
    0_1477792349697_Vue spherical pano setup.PNG
    RenderNode Network is a different type of networking, for multi-seat server/studio licenses.

    @caisson - OK, then bracketed exposures will be our weapon of choice. I'll want to try networking a full size complex atmo, and save bracketed exposure 16bit TIFFs, to verify if reloading a render which was not rendered onscreen will work. If that succeeds, then I'll begin production of a library of skies.

    Galadriel will likely finish the higher sun position version of Baie Mahault tomorrow, so I'll wait until she's done. Vue is not as stable as Poser and Queue Manager, so I don't want to initiate a network render while Galadriel is already rendering to screen.



  • @seachnasaigh I have a 5 cow license yes, but only one computer.


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    @parkdalegardener said in material sampler for the P11 construct:

    @seachnasaigh I have a 5 cow license yes, but only one computer.

    Most folks seem to still have the old computer sitting around, some also have the kids' gaming computer or the spouse's laptop.
    Well, if you ever want to make a network, my advice is to buy a used server blade - one with dual multi-core CPUs.

    @caisson Here is the noon version of Baie Mahault - 460MB because it is bright, so I went down to -8 on exposure. I did go up to +6, but you'll probably find that +6, +5, +4, and maybe even +3 were unnecessary. This is only different from the last set in that the sun is higher in the sky.

    Baie Mahault noon - bracketed exposure 16bit TIFFs - 460MB

    For future production purposes, I'll use your idea of applying a solid mid-grey to the ground, not because of render speed, but in order to avoid having a shiny sea being the exposure maximum (or a dull dirt being the exposure minimum).


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    @seachnasaigh - excellent thank you, should have exr up here very soon!


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    OK here is the Baie Mahault Noon exr plus several tone mapped LDR variations as 8 bit PNG files ... sorry not to get it up sooner!