What would YOU change about the Poser UI???

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  • Since the system won't allow me to correct...

    You have applied a Ryan Pose (Poser 8 Male) to James Casual (Poser 6 Male). Since the figures are rigged differently, you will have to adjust James..

  • @tburzio said in What would YOU change about the Poser UI???:

    @trekkiegrrrl No, actually it pretty much sucks at it, sorry. Try posing a figure wearing clothes, 95% scaling. First the standard poses won't work, the figure is all messed up. Then every time you grab a limb you get the clothes. Motion for a character, having a figure run, bleech. It's awful! Sure, it eventually works, but, grrr... Problem is, it's not all that far off, but sheesh! Posing is the point. In this case, a very dull point... :-)

    I find using the dials is the best way to go once your figure is clothed.

  • @eclark1849 even if they have added extra features they have remained consistent in they way they look Case in point is the Bullet Physics palette which looks like several of the other ones so you do not have to relearn what new looks mean. I almost never directly click and drag on interface elements except for the camera movement one which I use a lot instead of the dials, because I can move in two directions at the same time (or use my 3Dmouse). Even though I don't use the Light Control to move lights I do use it to have a visual guide as to where my lights are positioned and a basic idea of how bright they are. If you move something like the Light control to it's own tab what would you gain? If I have to change tabs to move the lights then discover I need to turn the figure by a couple of degrees that will require me to jump back to the Pose tab to move the character and then you get into a tennis match of jumping tabs. As has been pointed out above you can reskin the current UI elements. Also if you really wanted to you could recode them to change location of elements, since all they are is a button with a picture and as long as you have a button with the same GUID number then it will (should) work no problem.

    As far as gaining more work space I would suggest either a bigger monitor with more pixels or two + monitors. I personally do both. My setup consists of two monitors both 21x9. The Preview window is in the smaller upper window since it is 2560x1080, which gives me a full HD size view of the movies I work on. It also has a bit of space to the side to hold some of the seldom used palettes. The larger one is 3820x1600 which holds all my animation palettes and graphs. That way I can have a lot open and still not be crowded.

  • @richard60 I find it rather interesting that you guys don't realize that you're countering your own arguments. You point out that Poser's interface is customizable, but argue against moving any particular UI element from it's default position. Seriously, all I'm saying really is put the Editing tools under tab that says "Editing tools" out of the way. The Camera Controls are just redundant. You have those over the viewport. And I fully admit I'd like a total redesign of the Lighting widget.

  • @eclark1849 Try doing this. Close all the windows you don't want on the main Posing page. Then when you want to use that widget go up to the windows tab and re-open it, but reduce the size of the Pose window to a size you would get in something like the Material room. If you can do that and not get sick of the tennis match as you toggle back and forth then maybe you have a point. However I program control systems to operate the Audio Video equipment in classrooms and part of that is to make touch panel layouts and try to minimize the number of buttons and pages a user has to use. The problem is the more complex a system gets the harder it is to keep the most likely to be used controls in reach. Place a control used a fair amount of time and make a user click two or three times and they get mad. I can tell you the fewer clicks the happier people are. Case in point how many people want the Hierarchy control to open collapsed?

  • 0_1534506011564_Poser 12 concept2.jpg

    I made this concept a while back. It includes:

    • scripts organizer, favourites, etc.
    • extra keyframing functions, insert gap, remove redundant etc...
    • cached previews of frame shows with mouse over
    • three new tracks controlling which camera is active, what events take place (kinda like the categories now), and a comica panel track
    • frame information per frame
    • Fitting room removed and is now merged with setup to make "Rigging room"
    • New tab called Story, where you can organize your frames, render sizes, comic panels, speech bubbles, and integration into moho or other SM stuff.
    • Extra options in the hierarchy panel to collapse stuff, remove a portion of the scene from the memory stack (to free up resources while scene building), add item to a group
    • parameters panel now has checkboxes with the dials so you can do your selecting there instead of scrolling through HUGE menus.
    • Selections can be saved
    • Bulk delete of selected parameters
    • (not added but definitely needed: search dials!!!)
    • selected dials can be saved as a pose, or an injection

    Funny enough this inspired me to actually make my own control panel and this is what followed:


    NOT user friendly at all but I cannot live without it now.

    Here's an example of what it can already do:

    • Poses load instantly now (compare: 3-6 seconds > instant)
    • load rotations only of poses
    • load partial poses using presets
    • load poses without cycling IK and without losing IK detail (also really fast)
    • move and rotate figures and props with preset snap values
    • zero certain axis in translation as well as rotations
    • move relative to camera or actor
    • use a slider to set a value of a parameter before entering it (avoiding lag)
    • analysis of body control dials and zeroing them converting it into a true pose
    • update rotations for JCM / point at control across given timeline (incl quick one)
    • symmetry buttons simplified
    • place before camera
    • quick pick selection of difficult bodyparts
    • get parent of selected
    • collect keyframes from previous frame without going there
    • more IK options
    • move towards target prop/figure by factor
    • bring near to something else
    • partnering figures for erotic poses
    • make selected face target
    • point anything at anything else without committing to point at
    • define a loop
    • quick movie preview of loop
    • set up beats per minute for music videos and skip forward at set frames
    • various trick strips like loading items on actor's origins or passing rotations onto other actor
    • make predefined locations to use to place actors there quickly
    • in development: storyboarding with summaries and dialog per frame using 'custom_data' in a locked prop in the scene
    • actor groups and loop information, render folders and other files associated with the scene, story chapters, example images
    • supporting filetype that records the scene assets and cr2 locations (including info in previous two points): a project file basically
    • Keyframe control, bake all parameters or just the XYZ rotations and translations, of either figure or prop or the entire scene
    • refactor parameter values in given loop to absolute, relative or cumulative values.
    • most buttons have tool tips
    • Shows you what is still conformed / parented to something
    • make actor get rotations of previous keyframes


    • autofocus
    • pre-organize poses based on storyboard
    • new parameters palette with more control and selection options incl search function
    • new hierarchy palette with more control
    • 'Combination open' of figures. Combine items like hair, clothes, materials, before committing a figure load.
    • Texture temp gauge to prevent a crash
    • multi renamer of props
    • light manager
    • fake IK without activating IK
    • walk simulator with set waypoints (that actually starts and stops and works with all figures)
    • previews of all frames in storyboarding section
    • text balloon inserts

  • @erogenesis this won't be a nit-pick of your entire list, so don't sweat ;-)

    Would you care to share the technique that gives instant loading of poses? Is it simply a matter of preventing runtime hierarchy searching, or something more devious/inventive? :-)

    Anything I create in Python scripts could, ultimately, be compiled into C dynamic libraries to accelerate the code execution, but will ultimately still depend on what the developers have exposed in the Python API. Some omissions can be worked around (e.g. new mesh group creation via filesystem writes and OBJ loading), but many cannot (like python access to zone falloff curves). Can you load a character or scene via script, complete with every detail specified in the files, without simply calling the routines which do that as a whole, voiding any possibility of pre-processing or filtering?

  • @anomalaus what I did with the poses is simply read the pz2/p2z file and read in all the rotations of all the bodyparts. Then just set the values on the selected figure. When its an IK figure I have two methods, both take a little longer, but still MUCH faster than Poser's default loader. 1. I use dummy bones I make on the fly to temporarily replicate the skeleton at the given points and calculate the translations of the goals from there. 2. I load a makeshift skeleton in the scene, copy over the joint info, load the pose to that skeleton, set IK on, and then transfer the rotations to the selected figure. This stops Poser from cycling the IK of the selected figure which destroys all the poses in the scene of that figure (if you have limits on), and is MUCH faster.

    I have no idea why the default Poser method takes so long, they might indeed be trying to be smart about something, like scanning for differences in figure setup or something. But as per usual with Poser, when they try to be smart, things go wrong, take long, and/or crash. They need to keep things simple and (gasp) optional!!

    I will hand over this script to them so they can sort it out, or someone that wants to debug/make it user friendly. No way I'm going to do that.

  • Conjecture on my part but Poser maybe trying to read the pose and apply the universal fit to it. Another thing @erogenesis script can be fast on his system, but totally fail on someone else's due to whatever differences there may be between the systems. You can get fast with no error checking on a single platform, however look at how many different systems people here use and if you don't put in error checking you will run into problems. Even with error checking you can have problems.

  • @richard60 I highly doubt that because all I'm doing is accessing python's file read utility as well as a gzip utility which should work across all platforms, and is a very basic routine. Once the text is read, I extract the actor names, parameter names, and values. Those then get assigned to actors and parameters of the same kind, and that's all very basic Poser internal stuff. That should also work universally across all platforms. There is hardly any magic involved.

    But what Poser does, yeah maybe that is dependent on certain systems, but across all my PCs (eight of them), Intel, Asus, HP, Windows 7 & 10, Poser Pro 2014 and 11, its all very very slow. I would be surprised if there would be any difference elsewhere. So Poser is probably doing something etra we don't know about... and I really think they should make that optional.

  • @erogenesis it's just occurred to me that perhaps their parser is slower than yours or mine because it properly supports all of the current and legacy syntax of Poser files. If you're just looking for the transform parameter animated or static values in pose files, but not testing the current piece of file syntax for things you haven't implemented, there may be some performance hit, though I'd expect internal Poser code is fully compiled, rather than interpreted (this may be an invalid assumption, but I've never had any discussions with devs past or present about how Poser is coded).

    I've just run into the need to re-use some old poses saved before the existence of masterSync and before I extracted all of the legacy/deprecated linkParms from my figure. What a pain! Just about every master parameter on the Body has it's dial value replicated on the applicable body part's slaved dial, essentially doubling the effect. GRRRRR! I'm having to dig up the code I used to distil the duplicated dial values, but there's no Python API to cycle the masterSync setting on the slave so it's value can be zeroed, without affecting the master parameter! It can only be done currently by removing the slaving valueOperation (but only when the master and slave parameter names are identical, which is part of the assumed (and undocumented!) prerequisites for masterSync operation), resetting both the master and slave dials to zero, then restoring the slave valueOperation and setting the master dial only! Phew!

  • @anomalaus said in What would YOU change about the Poser UI???:

    @erogenesis it's just occurred to me that perhaps their parser is slower than yours or mine because it properly supports all of the current and legacy syntax of Poser files. If you're just looking for the transform parameter animated or static values in pose files, but not testing the current piece of file syntax for things you haven't implemented, there may be some performance hit, though I'd expect internal Poser code is fully compiled, rather than interpreted (this may be an invalid assumption, but I've never had any discussions with devs past or present about how Poser is coded).

    That's probably exactly what I am doing, just extracting the actual pose values / rotations... which is all I really need for a pose. Pose files saved in Poser are full of crap I don't need, and with P11 it got even worse. I always use Netherwork's pose writer which just records the rotations and translations (you can do more but its OPTIONAL hint hint lol) and it just works so much better. Poser pose files are always a hit or miss, you need to actually select the figure in the scene as well as in the selection menu, or the other way round I could never figure it out, but it is therefore super unreliable for me to begin with.

    And in all honesty I don't get why they force all that BS into Pose files to begin with. What is refactor even? Thigh Scale? Probably for Universal poses, but I can never get them to work anyway so I really don't see the point at all. My script just does the simple pose values, boom, end of story, I can work faster, get my job done without any nonsense. They need to make these things much more optional and its super simple to do. Evolution poses designed for Evolution figures, no interpretation or clever nonsense, it makes life much easier.

    The reason I came up with this method is because when I was in a big scene with like 10 characters, loading a pose was just ridiculously slow. I would often open up a second instance of Poser, load the same figure and then the pose, and then copy-paste the keyframe from that Poser to the scene I was working in. It worked so much faster, and it didn't screw with the IK (which is also why I don't use 11.1 because the keyframe data doesn't match up anymore with older versions of Poser). So I thought, hm, all it is is just text values, let me script it. Boom, done. Life is amazing now.

    I've just run into the need to re-use some old poses saved before the existence of masterSync and before I extracted all of the legacy/deprecated linkParms from my figure. What a pain! Just about every master parameter on the Body has it's dial value replicated on the applicable body part's slaved dial, essentially doubling the effect. GRRRRR!

    This also happens in scenes with keyframing, like even in poser 11! And its indeed super annoying. When I have a conforming item with like extra functionality, like a dress with handles or a tshirt with folding morphs, I cannot just copy-paste keyframes from one frame to the next or you get that very same doubling effect. Alt+LMB drag avoids this thank god.

  • There's quite a few things I would change about the UI. For one, I really hate the camera controls thing, it's big, it's goofy and it's a waste of space. Get rid that design and simply replace it with NWS camera control script as the default camera panel... imo it's one of the most useful and efficient addons I bought for Poser and it should be integrated with the program. There's also the small camera controls on the top right part of the viewport so the goofy default camera controls are simply an eyesore from poser's past.

    The light control panel is also like this, which I hate. Unfortunately I don't have something that replaces it so I leave it visible for now, but it's another retail space waster. I wish it was more streamlined.

    I'm not saying go blender-esque because blender's GUI confuses the living hell out of me and I can't do anything in it, but just cut the crap by keeping it simple. I don't need a pretty GUI, I need an efficient and customizeable one so I can get back to work.

    BTW Here's mine:


  • @johndoe641 There's always the option of closing the camera controls tab and using the shortcuts to change camera. And then use the Alt/drag to move the camera in the scene.

    I personally happen to love Poser's camera controls. They make sense to me, much more than in other programs. Habit, I guess. I started my life in 3D with Bryce and the same Kai Krause interface. I guess it's something you either love or hate.

  • Wouldn't change a single thing about Poser's UI. It has one of the most elegant UIs out there:


    But if it would be possible to somehow embed the timeline and the tools in that upper real estate...

  • I'm more or less in agreement that I wouldn't want anything changed in the ui, but having said that there are a few minor annoyances I would like to see changed.

    1 The ability to select the character, not just the body part or prop from the parameters panel, have the same 2 tab arrangement as at the top of the document window.

    The other two are due to the particular set up I have on one machine. I use a 4k 27in monitor as my main display and an HD 21in monitor in portrait mode as my auxiliary display on which I have most of my windows other than the document window. I don't use ui scaling as I've found this causes problems when I use it on my 4k laptop screen, with some dials in the parameters palet not displaying labels for example, and I want to have as large a document window as possible. This means letters on the main screen are very small and hard to read. So

    2 While many of the pop up windows that appear in the centre of the document window are movable, so I can move them onto the hd screen where they are easy to read, some such as the save to library dialogue are not, so I,d like all to be movable, and pop up next time they are used in the place I left them last time I used them.

    3 Have the main taskbar (File Edit etc.) in its own window so I can have this on my auxiliary window.

  • @krios Pull that animation timeline down a bit, and you'd reveal the area I want for the Bullet physics tab and Lights. If people want to keep the lighting widget, at least make it correspond to the grid layout so you can see where everything is, lights cameras, figures and objects. Otherwise, what's the point?

  • The light widget globe shows a representation of the scene from the currently selected camera view, hence if using a shadow cam the light is always dead cntre of the globe side facing you. It provides a quick, intuitive way of adjusting light direction, you want the main light more to the left, just move the light dot to the left, tyou want the light higher, just move it up. There are other ways to mechanically set up lights, but I find this the easiest way to get the feel of the lights while watching the scene as you move them.

  • @eclark1849 said in What would YOU change about the Poser UI???:

    So give it some thought.... what, if anything, would you change about Poser's UI.

    I really like Poser's UI, especially how customizable it is.

    My customized UI is very simple: In the Pose room, just a Preview panel and a Properties panel. In the Material room, just a Preview panel and the Advanced Materials panel. In the Cloth room, just the Preview panel and the Dynamics panels.

    I navigate using the camera controls at the top of the Preview panel (which is also where they are in my modeling app), and I adjust lights using parameter dials. For everything else, I use keyboard shortcuts -- for switching cameras, changing tools or display modes, launching Python scripts, etc., so I don't need to have panels open for those.

    When I need the Library, Hierarchy Editor, or Animation Controls panels, I invoke them w/ keyboard shortcuts. They're set to "floating" and have drag-docking disabled, so I can move them wherever I find convenient, or even dock them as needed. I hardly ever use any of the other panels, and I'm very glad I can so easily hide them!

    I work on a 15" MacBook Pro w/ a retina display scaled to 1680x105, and I have vision problems, so it was worth it to me to learn the keyboard shortcuts in order to have as much "working space" (in the Preview panel) as possible. (It also helps that I set up all my 3D-related apps to use the same keyboard shortcuts for common tasks, like switching cameras.) I've gotten so comfortable with my simple Poser UI that it's a shock to come across the "factory default" UI, which seems so cluttered!

    Here's my default UI on opening a new scene:


    If I could change one thing about Poser's UI, I suppose it would be the way Infinite light indicators are displayed. I appreciate having the wireframe circle with arrows, but b/c there's no way to change it to another display mode, I often can't tell which way the arrows are pointing. I change other types of lights to flat-shaded, which makes them much easier to work with (esp. spotlights).