How to create realistic bends n Poser figures.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    DISCLAIMER !
    I promised this video, and I promised to use DAWN for the video. As I only have Dawn SR2, that's the figure I used.

    REMARK for Hivewire :
    If you want the video removed, simply let me know and I will remake it using another figure.
    I also know that Dawn was created in DS and then converted to Poser so perhaps what I see is a direct result of this procedure.

    The first part of the video is what I found and corrected on DAWN SR2 to get a better joint center, and the second part is on how to set up the different relationships to get more realistic arm bending on Poser figures.

    The second part is the most important part.


    Best regards, Tony



  • Ooh very interesting! And thanks for showing so thoroughly how to edit dependencies, that is something I hadn't a clue about until now.

    I agree, your arm movement looks better.

    Will you explain how to fix that bulge in another video perhaps? Since weightmaps are completely Greek to me.


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    @vilters Tony, your demonstration looks good . But I have problems with a few stuff. About some small details I have to wrap my head around, but my main concern is to weightmap outfits when two joints move at the same time.
    I am not talking about string bikini or top. I talk about really complex outfits.
    When you paint your weight maps over 2-3 maps, you will face really the hell. You will have to switch permanently between joints and parameters in the hope you have the correct one and don't damage your previous paint.
    For normal bending, pose this method work as morph injection. But not when it comes to outfit weight mapping.
    My POV.


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    @ladonna Here I have Dusk with the jacket from his Plague Doctor outfit. Till now, not weight mapped, or at last almost nothing. Here I use your method on him. Now you see the weight map from the jacket with movement from shoulder and collar. Bend , twist.
    Now tell me, which joint cause which damage on the mesh? What should I weight map now and what area should I avoid?
    Looks to me like a hell of work .
    0_1535089038577_Bendingtest.JPG


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @ladonna

    Hi Ladonna. First to answer your question.
    A Content creator has to do nothing in this case.
    Until there is a response from Hivewire, continue to use the Dawn/Dusk rigging in the setup/fitting room to create conforming clothing because figure and clothing have to use the same bone structure and joint center points.

    What I showed in the video can only be fixed in the figure, and then it transfers automatically into the clothing during a setup- or fitting room session. If there is an update in the figure in the future? All existing content has to go through the setup- or fitting room again to inherit the updated joint setup.

    For content creators there is NO extra work involved. The fix needs to be in the figure, and you have to use what is in the figure.

    If you see similar things in Dusk and or other figures? Here is how to do the fix in the figure : Step by step.

    The check:

    • ZERO the figure. => Remove all IK and click ZERO figure.
    • Select the bones, one by one, in the Joint editor and check the position of the Joint, and the start and end points of each bone for position and alignment and look up a real human reference. (as i did in the video)

    The fix/repair:

    • To correct always work from the inside -out. => In this case for the collar Joint? => Collar first, shoulder second.
    • Position the Joint at its correct position. ( I only did this for the "Y" position in the video ( I have only 15 minutes for a YouTube video) but this also has to be done in the "X" and "Z" position.
    • With the Joint center in the correct position it is time to check the weight and both bulge maps.
      Again work inside out. Collar first, shoulder second.
    • If you see larger problems? ? Always remove ALL maps from the OUTSIDE bone (the shoulder in this case) before repainting the INSIDE bone (the Collarbone in this case)
    • Repaint the collar bone maps. First repaint the Weightmap, then both bulge maps.
    • Repaint the shoulder bone maps AFTER you repainted the Collar bone maps.

    Repaint the maps for twist (one map) Repaint the map for Side-Side (3 maps) and repaint for Bend (3 maps)
    For each Joint you have to repaint 7 maps. Collar bone 7 maps, Shoulder bone 7 maps.

    All fixes and repairs have to be done in the figure, and then they transfer automatically into the conforming clothing when it goes through the setup/fitting room.

    The dependencies and the improved bending.
    Dependencies have NO impact on the rigging itself.
    They only tell another bone what to do when it moves, and you build those relationships in the figure itself.

    Clothing and content creators have to do nothing special because the bones of the clothing just follow what the bones in the figure are doing. (There are no dependencies in the clothing)
    If the figures bones move? So will the clothing's bones. (Clothing does not care if the movement came from a "stand alone" dial change or a dependency.)

    Best regards, Tony


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @vilters Tony, honestly, I will not make me this work with fixing joints on a figure.
    If I do this and I rig, weightmap an outfit with corrected joints, the outfit will not behave correct on Dusk, Dawn from others with the default joint settings.
    I am honest here, Dusk need not really any improvement .I weight map this outfit right now and it goes surprisingly smooth .
    With limits on , almost a walk in the park.
    I don't think vendors who create outfits should change anything on the joint parameters from the character. Avoid head ache and mass hatemails :)


  • Poser Ambassadors

    As I wrote above. Content creators have to continue to use what is in the figure. (Joint position and weight-bulge map.)

    And the dependencies trick to get better bends can still be used because it only tells other bones how to move when it moves. => You can still control the whole arm through dependencies even when the figure joint setup is not optimal.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    What you see here , the Jacket has till now only at the neck and head weight map. Shoulder and collar till now untouched .
    The distortion is there, but honestly not that much for an object which is mostly untouched with the weight map brush.
    0_1535103216211_Micheddecorvus.jpg


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @vilters So if not for cloth creation, what kind of advantage did this method give me else? Smooth bending, okay, but this is not enough for the work.
    Is this also working with JCM's?


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @ladonna PS....don't take this wrong, I am pretty much interested .But I want to know not only the pro's, also the contra :)


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Nice render, good light management and scary clothing. He's up to something. LOL.

    PS; The "better bend dependencies" have NO impact on the existing rigging.
    They only tell other bones how to move in relationship to tis own movements.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @ladonna

    The "pro" is more realistic bends with less work.
    You "only" have to pose the shoulder bone to get the complete arm to move in a realistic way. In the video, I show the "bend" setup but the same is valid for forwards-backwards movement of the arm where the collars also move forwards-backwards.

    In a complete setup, all end users have to do is "pose the shoulder", and all the posing of the rest of the arm movement is done automatically by the dependencies.

    The contra is that you are limited by the existing rigging and you really need good joints/maps to get the dependencies posing to its full potential.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @ladonna
    On your question: "Does it work with JCM's?

    Answer: Yes it does.
    I just cross-checked with KEZ, a figure that has a JCM in her Collar-Breast area, and the same "posing dependencies" work on a figure with JCM's.

    The "return to ZERO" when creating the dependencies is different on KEZ.
    Each figure has "its things". LOL.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    PS, and before there is any misunderstanding…….
    => Never create posing dependencies in the clothing. it does not work.

    Conforming clothing follow the bone bends of the FIGURE ! ! ! and thus the posing dependencies have to be created in the figure.

    Nothing changes for conforming clothing builders.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Thanks, the texture is not final, this is just a preview .And light is just one sun with HDRI plugged in BG.
    Well as soon I have some time, will go in this deeper. Thanks :) Very much appreciated your answer.



  • @vilters thanks for taking the time and explain how to get more from Poser figures. Not everybody here is a vendor and only interested in knowledge they can use to make money while selling things to inexperienced Poser users.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @adp Since I am a lazy butt when it comes to weight painting and posing, I am always interested in easy ways. Not only for the market ;)


  • Poser Ambassadors

    None of the inventors of the Dependency Posing System have responded so far, and I do not want to take credit for something I did not invent.*

    Within 6 hrs from now; (More or less midnight here in Belgium), a follow-up video will be uploaded to YouTube, and proper credit will be given to the inventors of the Dependency Posing System.
    The link will be posted here too.

    Best regards, Tony.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Good example of how to set up dependencies, but this shouldn't be done in the main rotation channels as it prevents other types of poses from being possible. Reserve it for posing dials instead, that way you keep the x y and z rotations free to be posed however they need to be.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @ambientshade This was what I try to explain also with the "freedom of space" . It is not given here.