How to create realistic bends n Poser figures.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Nice render, good light management and scary clothing. He's up to something. LOL.

    PS; The "better bend dependencies" have NO impact on the existing rigging.
    They only tell other bones how to move in relationship to tis own movements.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @ladonna

    The "pro" is more realistic bends with less work.
    You "only" have to pose the shoulder bone to get the complete arm to move in a realistic way. In the video, I show the "bend" setup but the same is valid for forwards-backwards movement of the arm where the collars also move forwards-backwards.

    In a complete setup, all end users have to do is "pose the shoulder", and all the posing of the rest of the arm movement is done automatically by the dependencies.

    The contra is that you are limited by the existing rigging and you really need good joints/maps to get the dependencies posing to its full potential.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @ladonna
    On your question: "Does it work with JCM's?

    Answer: Yes it does.
    I just cross-checked with KEZ, a figure that has a JCM in her Collar-Breast area, and the same "posing dependencies" work on a figure with JCM's.

    The "return to ZERO" when creating the dependencies is different on KEZ.
    Each figure has "its things". LOL.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    PS, and before there is any misunderstanding…….
    => Never create posing dependencies in the clothing. it does not work.

    Conforming clothing follow the bone bends of the FIGURE ! ! ! and thus the posing dependencies have to be created in the figure.

    Nothing changes for conforming clothing builders.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Thanks, the texture is not final, this is just a preview .And light is just one sun with HDRI plugged in BG.
    Well as soon I have some time, will go in this deeper. Thanks :) Very much appreciated your answer.



  • @vilters thanks for taking the time and explain how to get more from Poser figures. Not everybody here is a vendor and only interested in knowledge they can use to make money while selling things to inexperienced Poser users.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @adp Since I am a lazy butt when it comes to weight painting and posing, I am always interested in easy ways. Not only for the market ;)


  • Poser Ambassadors

    None of the inventors of the Dependency Posing System have responded so far, and I do not want to take credit for something I did not invent.*

    Within 6 hrs from now; (More or less midnight here in Belgium), a follow-up video will be uploaded to YouTube, and proper credit will be given to the inventors of the Dependency Posing System.
    The link will be posted here too.

    Best regards, Tony.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Good example of how to set up dependencies, but this shouldn't be done in the main rotation channels as it prevents other types of poses from being possible. Reserve it for posing dials instead, that way you keep the x y and z rotations free to be posed however they need to be.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @ambientshade This was what I try to explain also with the "freedom of space" . It is not given here.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Hint, hint, hint ….. I hr before revealing ! ! !

    So strange. Not a word from the inventors them selves.

    And . . .
    And . . .
    This is so strange. . . Nobody recognizes the system?

    Everybody has it, and has been using it. . . . . on at least 5 different figures, if not at least on 4.

    Well, one more hr to go. LOL.

    Time for a walk with a cigarette, some fresh coffee, and time to make the video.

    See ya in a hr guys.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Hello guys, here is the link tot the follow-up video on Dependency Controlled Bending in Poser.

    The system was invented in 2014 by the previous Poser team and implemented in the Poser8 figures.

    2 things got the system in the "forget" corner. LOL.

    • At the time of inventing, we still had the old style conventional rigging that had its own limitations.
    • And I think I made the first complete tutorial on how to create those dependencies only yesterday.
      (I remember seeing a small tut floating around in the past, but it was not very detailed and did not go very deep.)

    The original Poser 8 figures were the first, and the system got used very deep into Miki4.

    On Miki 4 , they went a step further.
    There is a hierarchy where one dependency dial controls the next dependency dial that controls the bone movements.
    This is (among others) the case for the Right- and for the Left Arm, and then a dependency control that commands these Right- and Left Arm controls to combine them in a single "Both Arm Up-Down-Twist movement".
    Just open the dependency editor for each and you will automatically see what controls what.

    Conforming clothing.
    Does not care, it just follows.
    Just like an airplane engine does not care if it flies over land or sea, the conforming clothing does not care where the bend, twist or side-side comes from, or who controls what. It just follows the bone bends, twists and side-side of the figures bones.

    Dependency Controlled Bending is there to facilitate Posing.
    Like I show in the video?
    Make Alyson 'or Miki4 go sitting is . . . . . One dial.
    To lift the arms? When all is said and done ? One dial.

    Best regards, and enjoy the video. Tony



  • @vilters
    Wait isn't this a well known fact already ? The video kind of threw me off guard because I myself been doing that since day one (unless im just feeling lazy) but I always thought that was the norm,the way its supposed to be done.(then again I studied how miki posed and moved for a long time maybe thats why I always did it like that))always,Hmmm,even went as far as creating whole poses from just one dial turn..but since you cant see how the pose looks till you dial it in decided not to do that.
    Anyway good explanation and video on this.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @chk2033

    Ha, yes, it was always supposed to be used in this way.

    But you also see some of the reactions here.
    The system was not well known, SM never provided proper tutorials, and I made the video's following multiple discussions in multiple forums.
    But, honestly, I am very happy to see that I am not the only one that digs pretty deep in the technology.

    Best regards, and have fun using the Poser tools.





  • @etujedi Thanks for letting us know about this video. I just checked on YouTube, and it's by Paul Lessard, the gentleman who does all the rigging of the HiveWire figures.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @etujedi
    Thank you for the explanations.
    I just looked at the video, but it is way past midnight here, so allow me to analyse it properly and give feedback tomorrow.
    First impressions are;

    • Why does the endpoint "jump" when the bikini is loaded, because half of your explanation is lost by that jump. => With bikini loaded the DAWN collar end point jumps down. => Delete the bikini, and the DAWN collar end point jumps back up, and this end point jumping was not mentioned in the vid.

    • On the issue of the weightmaps and center point changed?
      I changed the center point on the Right arm only, but did the weight- bulge map demo on the left arm with the original center point "as is".

    • With the end point of the collar bone so high up, Dawn gets dents and bulges in the lower collar when twisting. Clearly visible in your video around the 2min 30 sec mark.

    Thanks for the feedback video, will look with a clear head tomorrow, but some questions remain open.

    best regards, Tony


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Tja, could not go to bed.....
    Just looked at some sports video's where athletes have to twist their arms, and the collar-shoulder twist happens at the joint in the center of the arm.
    Just looked in the mirror too. And the end point of the collar bone hardly moves with arms twist. The twist is in the center.
    (Tja, I do have a full body mirror here, solely for posing purposes.)
    Night-night now. Have a good W-End all. (Thanks for the video sir.)
    Tony



  • Thanks so much for posting your video Paul. Much appreciated. Yes, several ways to skin a cat, or rig a figure for a pleasing and desired outcome.

    Concessions are a common concern and occurrence within the limitations of software tools. Paul has done a fabulous job rigging all of our HiveWire figures and animals to date. Our goal is to provide a product that works equally as well in Poser and DAZ Studio, as Paul has stated, and achieve a natural kinetic motion that is believable, and do so in an efficient manner.

    I believe our figures and products are solid. Can we still make improvements? Of course, and as Paul has said we've taken note of ideas to incorporate in subsequent updates or versions to improve rigging and other aspects. But for now we hope folks enjoy our figures, and find value in using them.



  • @hivewirechris said in How to create realistic bends n Poser figures.:

    Thanks so much for posting your video Paul. Much appreciated.

    @etujedi is Paul??? I didn't realize that when I went to look at the video at YouTube. I probably should've realized that, but old age is definitely setting in. ~wink~