Conforming pants for PE - Made easy :)


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @trekkiegrrrl Due any respect, did we talk about the same pic?
    On the Tshirt is is clearly see that the obj is not intact anymore. Arms, neck.
    The side, this strange distortion happens when your UV map get destroyed .This outfit would never go like this through any
    betatest. On the crotch you can see also this jeans are torn apart. All this, you can not fix later in your modeler properly .
    I don't want to bash you here, so please don't take it wrong. But you ask why this method is not usable for the market.
    And I try to answer honest .

    0_1535176740188_1535129736345-2a99eec6-1233-497b-a55d-81584aa93b6f-image.jpg


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @trekkiegrrrl What you see here is a screen shot is the UV from a Poser generated OBJ , taken into Substance painter .
    All over where the groups are the obj file is broken.
    This will cause many problems later.
    Not only texturing, but also weighmapping. The reason why you should never use the OBJ from Poser .
    0_1535177404834_Jacketposerobj.jpg


  • Poser Ambassadors

    And this is what can happen when you autogroup in Poser.
    He take a polygone out from the chest 1 and put it in abdomen 2.
    Here it is more easy and clean to create your own groups in the modeler instead to clean after Poser's autogrouping up. At last for me.
    0_1535178864912_Autogroup poser.jpg



  • @ladonna The Fitting-Room is a very useful tool for most of Poser users. In most cases fiddling for weeks to make a piece of cloth look better often isn't worth the effort (except for a handful vendors). And one needs a lot of know how (and software) to do so.

    By the way: The Fitting-Room doesn't touch your UV map.

    For the worst auto-converted zones one can move polygons to the right group easily. And often smoothing some weightmaps a little gets rid of "destroyed" UV areas.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    You can group an obj manually and then either use a copy of it in the fitting room or just redirect the cr2 once it's been generated by the fitting room. Transfer morphs option in the fitting room has been broken for most of P11's life anyway - it got trashed by one of the SRs and never got fixed - so you have to use the 'transfer morphs from' option in the figure menu after the clothing has been rigged. Alternatively you can go into the setup room with the clothing obj and drag your intended figure from the library (or double click) onto the clothing and it will auto rig. Once you exit the setup room any unused bones will be removed. This has been true since PP2012, unless they broke it during one of the upgrades or SRs.

    It's my understanding that the stores won't accept unwelded objs, which is the main reason it's an unmarketable product. Just like they won't accept props with geometry in them. Maybe that's changed.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @adp I was not mentioned for the normal user. @trekkiegrrrl was asked why it is not to use for the market. I explain why.
    Or would you buy an outfit which she present above?
    No the UV map does not get altered, but when the OBJ is altered, also the UV map.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @ambientshade I know this. The question here was why the OBJ from Poser should not get used. And this was what I show. No more , no less.
    And why the store won't accept unwelded obj files. Look the broken mesh which I shown clearly in Substance painter.
    You forget all that an intact, proper welded obj file, with proper UV maps is mandatory also, because People use OBJ files not only in Poser. Vue, Blender, DS also. And other applications.How many import from Poser obj, files to Vue, Blender, Max, etc..
    And this is one of the reason why stores ask for good obj files and not an embed one or splitted.

    But I am out here.



  • @ladonna Sorry, folks, but I'm with Ladonna here. This clothing would never pass QA in any store.

    Trekkie, no one said your freebies suck. Also, please put PE in any pose that involves bending the legs in your pants - sitting, crouching, whatever. Then look at the crotch area before you decide if it's "good enough."



  • Again, TrekkieGirl, no one is trying to demean your freebies. We're (Ladonna and I) are just trying to explain that while the fitting room is a great time saver in rigging, it's not a commercial ready product that comes out of there. They all need finessing and cleanup to be a viable product that will pass QA in a store.
    Here, my pants straight out of the fitting room with only the leg JCMs added using Poser's Copy Morphs From after exiting the fitting room.
    0_1535195725973_FromTheFittingRoom.jpg



  • @ladonna polygons and uv-polygons aren't altered. Just regrouped.



  • One of the things that's always irritated the crap out of me when making clothes for Poser figures is the crotch area for pants and the skirts and dresses. Just seems t me that no thought or logic was used in this area when the system was fist formed. Now if you tell me that was the technology around back when it first came out, I can let that go, but then I have to ask what's your excuse now? Backwards compatibility? I will admit that pants have gotten better, but skirts still need some help. Maybe hybridization?



  • @eclark1849 Quite simply, Earl, when figures are created, the last thing on the mind of the rigger is how clothing will work. They need to rig to show their figure at it's best - nude. And that is how it should be.

    Now, I would also challenge any figure rigger to make conforming clothing to release with the figure so that they can understand what the vendors are going to be dealing with.



  • A body and clothing are two different things that behave totally different. That is where separate clothing rig templates like the mannequins for PE come in.



  • @ladonna said in Conforming pants for PE - Made easy :):

    @adp I was not mentioned for the normal user. @trekkiegrrrl was asked why it is not to use for the market. I explain why.
    Or would you buy an outfit which she present above?
    No the UV map does not get altered, but when the OBJ is altered, also the UV map.

    Actually, I never asked about why it was not for the market - I asked what was wrong.

    The places you point out looks probably the same on the dynamic version.

    As I said, the UV map is already crappy on the dynamic versions, because I can't UV map properly. I have tried. Time and time again. I'm getting better at it, but Hexagon has a funny idea of maps, sometimes they work, sometimes they don't.

    And please .. I'm sure Blender is a fantastic tool, that's just not the one I use. So any mentioning of what I might do in Blender ... well, not going to work here ;)

    I never talked about selling these outfits. I still think they look fine, and I can't SEE those splits in the obj. I guess I'm blind, but they're just not there on my screen.

    The issues with the neck is also probably already present in the dynamic version. Hems aren't my strong side.
    I've converted my dynamic clothes for PE to conforming now. They work just as well as their dynamic counterparts, and wayyy faster ;)

    Also .. the morphs have transferred nicely. All of PE's character morphs are present in the clothes, as well as several adjustment morphs from the mannequin. When I dial a new character, the clothes follow nicely. Of course, something like Pudgy Elf or Bantu Lady makes the boobies look a little funny, but as always when you distort something that much, it will show. Like in that other discussion recently, you can't slap a 400 pound lady in a tight dress and expect it to look GOOD.

    I'm frankly amazed at the capabilities of the Fitting Room. IMO it's a much overlooked feature in Poser.

    I recently followed a "How to make clothes for G3 in Hexagon" tutorial, and that one showed how to easily get it into DS as a conforming item. I was jealous at the apparent ease there, but actually, the Fitting Room does much of the same. Not perfect, but absolutely passable for people who has made a simple garment in their modeler and want to use it in Poser.

    Again, I NEVER talked abuot selling these things. There's a lot of cleaning up and stuff to do before they are good enough for that.

    But for people who see a nice dynamic set and shy away from that dreaded cloth room? It's brilliant.



  • @trekkiegrrrl I did a tutorial for "Weight Mapping in 10 Minutes" when the Fitting Room was first released. It was a freebie for years. And, yet, the same erroneous information - How much easier it is to rig in DS - continues to be repeated over and over and over. A "meme" gets attached to Poser and there is no changing it.



  • @f_verbaas said in Conforming pants for PE - Made easy :):

    A body and clothing are two different things that behave totally different. That is where separate clothing rig templates like the mannequins for PE come in.

    A body and clothing should for all intents and purposes collide with each other. Dynamic clothing does that for the most part. Conforming clothing... not so much.



  • @vilters Thank you very much for your post and video on youtube. I was unaware of this issue (I have used Poser for many years but I am still a rank amateur) and it has now allowed me to convert clothing with style morphs from V4 to Project Evolution.



  • For the uv mapping have you tried roadkill [http://www.pullin-shapes.co.uk/page6.htm]? It looks like it's been updated since the last time I used it, but it seemed pretty straightforward then.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @trekkiegrrrl This is what you asked for.

    0_1535219828024_post.JPG

    The issues from the collar are no UV issues. They come from the geometry .
    Try to morph and weightmap an parted geometry file which Poser creates.
    Again, the fitting room is great for personal usage, but never ever for the market.
    Why I never said that your freebies suck, I was just point out that this outfit would never pass any QA .
    Your asked for opinion and I was honest. Should I say it is all awesome when it is clearly not?

    Sorry but when in this forum is no constructive critic is welcome anymore, than I am really done here.
    When I was asking a few weeks ago about the leather pants from PE if this will be an issue if she bend her thigh 10° less because JCM issue , i was told that for free content this will be okay. An outfit with proper geometry, UV map and textures.
    Now I read that it is perfectly okay to use damaged obj files with stretched UV's.
    This whole discussion can not be real.
    I give up here.



  • @ladonna said in Conforming pants for PE - Made easy :):

    @trekkiegrrrl This is what you asked for.

    0_1535219828024_post.JPG

    The issues from the collar are no UV issues. They come from the geometry .
    Try to morph and weightmap an parted geometry file which Poser creates.
    Again, the fitting room is great for personal usage, but never ever for the market.
    Why I never said that your freebies suck, I was just point out that this outfit would never pass any QA .
    Your asked for opinion and I was honest. Should I say it is all awesome when it is clearly not?

    Sorry but when in this forum is no constructive critic is welcome anymore, than I am really done here.
    When I was asking a few weeks ago about the leather pants from PE if this will be an issue if she bend her thigh 10° less because JCM issue , i was told that for free content this will be okay. An outfit with proper geometry, UV map and textures.
    Now I read that it is perfectly okay to use damaged obj files with stretched UV's.
    This whole discussion can not be real.
    I give up here.

    I never said the problems with the collar was from the UV map. I said the same issue was probably present in the dynamic version (ie the obj) because hems not always turn out as I want them to :)

    THIS WAS NEVER MEANT FOR THE MARKET! As in FOR SALE. I never ever said that.

    I ASKED what was wrong, why something like this (which isn't the same as saying "THIS ITEM") couldn't be made this way.

    You talk about selling stuff. I ask about what the issues with doing it this way is.

    In other words, we're talking about two completely different things. And misunderstandings happen.

    And no you never said my freebies suck :) Which I also never implied.

    But qua the discussion about ALL the things that were apparently wrong with the badminton set, well ... Every time I run a simulation on it, the ruffle falls down nicely, so being told that it "stays up" and this is wrong and that is wrong (Which YOU never said, someone else did) admittedly made me a bit irritated.
    And then I show what I STILL feel is a great and overlooked feature in Poser, namely that you can take a dynamic piece of clothing and make it conforming very easily, and again get told that this is wrong, that this is ugly and this is destroyed ... Well ... If people don't like my stuff, then just ... don't use them. Simple as that.

    I don't need each and every little modeling mistake pointed out. I know fully well that I am not a great clothes modeler. This is why I make props and not clothes for sale :)