Will Poser ever have a default higher vertex mesh model?



  • @qazart
    Well, what holds you?
    Put down a proposal, form a team and improve Pauline.



  • @adi

    I've sort of looked deeper into this.
    You are correct, V7 is the lowest mesh count relying heavily on HD morhping, and the particular mathematical mesh technology type.

    I think I'll have to clarify that when I refer to higher mesh, I'm specifically referring to localized areas of a model where bending, or lots of movement takes place such as face, joints, including the hip.



  • @shvrdavid
    Her bent elbow is still too round for my tastes. Lack of definition in the wrists also makes it hard for me to look passed.
    Her face is looking much cuter though.



  • @AmbientShade

    I will admit I'm pretty ignorant of how you get a decent model from a low poly mesh.
    I only know that trying to even work with a low poly mesh is a complete pain. Having messed with Pauline to come up with that morph above, it was a complete joy to go back to V4.

    "Things like teeth are irrelevant if a modeler knows what they're doing"
    Pauline's teeth are half way down her throat. They are the wrong shape.
    For a base model to be versatile, you need the ability to move eyes and teeth independently from the rest of the face, and morph the head around those.
    No problem at all with V4.
    By my guest at fixing Pauline's teeth.

    @F_VERBAAS

    I did propose this 12 months ago. No one listened. Vilters went off and did his own thing and so did ShrDavid. I said that I would contribute once these guys had done their stuff.
    Pauline advanced is excellent work, but it is not free for all to use so useless.

    Frankly my hopes are pinned on Ero coming up with something.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @qazart - try adding one subD level to Pauline & then exporting to obj (Poser can export the subD mesh). This will give you a higher res mesh to work on (comparable res I think to base V4). If importing the result fails as a morph target, try @vilters method of using the morph brush/fitting room to fit the morphed mesh to the standard Pauline with subD - then you can create a multi-res morph.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Search on youtube under my name, and the Poser2Blender2Poser series of video's.

    Video1 and Video2 will give you all the info required to get more detail in ALL Poser figures.

    OR?
    You can use shvrdavid's method to use the morph brush on a SubD figure.

    Both method's need some time to learn properly, but both work.

    Exporting a SubD mesh from Poser does however NOT work as can be seen in Video4
    (Poser splits meshes into individual groups at export.)

    Best regards, Tony


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @vilters - I just tried exporting Pauline with current release SR5 & 1 level of subD; default settings at export (weld body part seams & include body part names ticked). Import to Zbrush reports unused vertices but works ok. Import to Modo Indie works ok. There is only one polygon group - Body - for the whole figure. Material groups are all there. Resolution is 138,880 polygons.

    So it would appear that it does work. As there are some unused vertices it will probably fail if imported as a morph target, but your & @shvrdavid's methods should work to create a multi-res morph.

    @qazart - depending on your modelling app, it should be possible to use the material groups to isolate & work on areas like teeth & eyes independent of the rest of the mesh.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @nakedfunn_ said in Will Poser ever have a default higher vertex mesh model?:

    @shvrdavid
    Her bent elbow is still too round for my tastes. Lack of definition in the wrists also makes it hard for me to look passed.
    Her face is looking much cuter though.

    Thanks, all I really did is the back and upper arm on that one. I have been working towards doing the whole figure as well. The face morph is not HD, but I do have those in progress as well.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @caisson
    Correct, but no go. Allow me to explain.

    When you select "weld body part seams", you are exporting the figure as a single grouped prop. => You get a SubD prop because you just lost all vertex group information.

    You can rework that obj file to your liking but you are left with a single group prop.

    Importing back into Poser (as a prop) works, going through the setup room to get the rig back "might" work, but then, when you resave your "reworked figure " back to library, Poser cuts it back up into separate, loose, and individual vertex groups.
    => That is what Video 4 of the series shows (for clothing, but it is the same for figures)


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @vilters - yes if your aim is to create a new figure, but if the goal is to create a new higher resolution morph for a figure like Pauline it should work. Would be similar to just using the original obj & subdividing it in another app.



  • When Pauline came out I said YES !!! Export sub D - model - import sub D.
    Forget V7. Now we are cooking !
    Poser did not export sub D :(

    Hopes dashed.
    Is there anyway that Smith Micro can make this thing work ?



  • Also, although I can export and remodel the teeth, it would do me no good as the mouth is fully enclosed within the face.
    Pauline's lips are 3 feet thick, which is why the teeth are down her throat.



  • @caisson said in Will Poser ever have a default higher vertex mesh model?:

    As there are some unused vertices it will probably fail if imported as a morph target, but your & @shvrdavid's methods should work to create a multi-res morph.

    The unused vertices I think would be the vertices that are left un-used when the seams are welded. Deleting them would mess up the morphs.

    I see no reason why the exported .obj could not have the original polygon groups information. This strikes as a bug. It would be much appreciated if the Poser tech people would comment on this and, in general, explain the workflows they had in mind when designing the new system.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @qazart said in Will Poser ever have a default higher vertex mesh model?:

    @AmbientShade

    I will admit I'm pretty ignorant of how you get a decent model from a low poly mesh.

    By creating only the polys you need to represent the shape you're aiming for.

    I only know that trying to even work with a low poly mesh is a complete pain.

    Practice. It's not that difficult, just takes some getting used to. Especially if you have a sculpting app like zbrush. Granted, trying to move individual edges and points around in a traditional modeler like they did 10-15 years ago can be frustrating - which is all the more reason to use a low poly mesh. Less material to have to shape. Blender also has sculpting capabilities. And there is the morph brush inside Poser. Personally I only use zbrush for my morphing so I can't comment on other sculpting methods, but I do use blender to redirect edge flow when poly modeling, if I can't do it in zbrush. It also eliminates the worry of dealing with unused verts, if you're using goZ. I didn't see where/if you stated what software you're using to make your morphs, that could be part of your issue.

    "Things like teeth are irrelevant if a modeler knows what they're doing"
    Pauline's teeth are half way down her throat. They are the wrong shape.
    For a base model to be versatile, you need the ability to move eyes and teeth independently from the rest of the face, and morph the head around those.
    No problem at all with V4.

    Her eyes and teeth are separate geometry, built exactly the same method as V4 and every other Poser figure. They can be resculpted, scaled, etc. same as all the others. The only difference is she uses translations in her rigging.

    By my guest at fixing Pauline's teeth.

    No interest in fixing Pauline, I have my own figures to work with - which are lower poly than she is (28K). I was working on some head morphs a while back and I have an FBM for Paul that I almost completed but got sidetracked months ago and lost interest. I might release it at some point. Was going to do some work with his rigging first though.