New Poser figure in the making : Initial Feedback request. (NSFW)


  • Poser Ambassadors

    I really don't get the integrated hair and boots. What is the reasoning for that?



  • I see a lot of limitations caused be integrated boots and hair and prohibiting porn is not one of them. By integrated, I"m assuming you mean attached. How can she wear sandals or flip-flops? That boots and bathing suit look just isn't for me. And boots with a formal dress, no thanks.

    Built in hair inhibits diversity. I have a tendency to do crowd scenes. Unless I'm doing 'invasion of the clones,' that would limit her usefulness. As a "home alone end user" a would get very frustrated very fast with the lack of ability to diversify this figure.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Hello guys,

    Everything you see above is open for discussion. The figure, the shape, proportions, everything is open.

    The "integrated concept" however is a fixed given because that's where the technology, the tips and tricks are. => So to answer one of the questions? => Nothing is "attached".

    This is not gonna be the "typical" : Load the "naked and dress her up figure" as we know them anno 2016. This is a "think outside of the box" figure.

    Prime is = End user "everyday" usability. => Think : Enhanced Poser casual figures, but with something useable underneath.

    "They", read "they" as multiple, => Read as "more then one", will come fully clothed when ready.

    So? Basically, the "concept is fixed".
    ALL the rest is open for discussion, including propositions for the clothing sets. (Waiting for those)

    Best regards, Tony


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Could you be any more vague?

    When you say "integrated" that means part of, which will make most people think that the boots and hair are attached, like the old Poser 2, 3 and 4 figures.

    The other option is that you're using geo swapping, which can be hit and miss with weight mapping in Poser.

    As for the rest, her proportions don't look too bad but the shapes are another story. Especially the face and hands. Honestly her face is too flat, and looks like a 55-60 year old woman who has had entirely too many face lifts. There's not enough skin/flesh around her mouth so when she smiles it's like stretching plastic over bone, and there's too much tendon definition in her neck.

    Flesh out her face and give it more shape and contours around the eyes, fuller lips and a more defined nose so that she looks younger. That is unless you're aiming for the 55-60 year old with too much plastic surgery look. Most people want young pretty Poser girls, under 30. Older characters are fine but definitely not in demand.

    Her hands are too flat and have no definition. From the seated position in the first image, her thigh doesn't bend in the right location. It may be that her torso is too long or her thighs are too short, but it gives a dislocated hip look in that seated position.

    Her shoulders are also strange looking in the upward angle, which is most likely due to your refusal to use JCMs, which is a must for any figure, in any 3D app, unless you're building game characters for a 20 year old engine that can't handle blend shapes. Clasp her hands behind her head with her elbows pointed forward at forehead level or higher and you'll instantly see why JCMs are a vital necessity for any 3D figure thats intended to pass for human. For that matter put her into any type of exercise pose, especially yoga, and see how well she bends. Seriously, if you're going to insist on not using industry standard rigging features like JCMs then you have to demonstrate that you can produce at least the same results as all the figures out there that do use them.

    Also, are you still using morphs for facial expressions or is her face rigged? If you're still using morphs, why?

    This isn't meant to belittle your efforts here, honestly. You're asking for feedback on all aspects so I'm pointing out what I see wrong.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @AmbientShade Thanks so much for the feedback, I"ll study it very closely in the morning.

    One happy accident later we are here: => Dynamic hair directly grown on the "again" purpose morphed head.
    => The top and sides of the head are morphed to get the dynamic hair to flow the way it does.

    (never thought it would work, but here goes.)

    Advantage => the flow of the dynamic hair.
    Disadvantage : Euh, I amputated the ears. :-( Now she does not listen any more..... But then, LOL, what woman does? ? LOL.

    0_1477524765856_testing12-forum.jpg

    Night-night all.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    ETA: I meant to also add that she does look better than previous iterations you've shown in the past.

    But one thing, if you don't want people making "porn" then why did you give her nipples and pubes?


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @AmbientShade
    Quick answer before going to bed. => I have nothing against artistical nudity.

    Compared to the past figures? => This is a 90% new build/ cut-up, reglue, cut-up again. LOL.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @AmbientShade
    Oh,; and the public hair?

    That is on a separate layer in the master texturing file. => I can click it ON or OFF in the final texture I choose to work with.
    So are different brows, lips or nipple versions.

    When you build a master texturing file, you can set all body details on a different layer and mix as needed before saving or baking.

    So are the "lightening of the inside of the hands" for the dark skins, or color changes for Asian-like skins.

    All this is part of the technology and flexibility of this figure.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @AmbientShade

    Hello Shane,
    You asked why I use standard morphing and NOT use the newer facial control system.
    The same answer goes for : Why do I NOT use weightmapping for the whole figure.

    (Only the collars, the shoulders and both thigh are weightmapped, the rest of the figure is conventional rigging.)

    Answer : Because at this stage, I am still cutting up the obj file, and by using conventional rigging for most groups the rigging stays functional.

    IF I had gone to full weightmap, I would loose the rig at every obj file surgery.

    AND : Conventional rigging has a TON of advantages OVER the weightmap system.

    For example : On pants or shirts?
    On a conventional rig, you can add pockets, buttons or whatever at random. And the rig stays functional. (If all is welded and grouped properly)
    On a weightmap clothing item, you would loose the rig each and every time you do obj file surgery.

    Going over to full weightmap? Perhaps a day before release, if ever.

    And today?
    My deepest condolences to the lashes. => They are in the trash can and replaced by dynamic hair lashes.
    In Poser : We have 8, (yes eight) different ways to control dynamic hairflow, but the lashes are gonna be simple, and one less UV_Map to worry about, and above all, less geometry to take care off. => AND? LOL; Dynamic lashes ALWAYS follow the underlying geometry. LOL. => You NEVER have to worry about them in your 3D app were you build the figure obj file.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @vilters No, I never had much problem with that. The problems I've run into are mostly centered around various glitches that have come and gone in the setup room.

    I used the fitting room to transfer WIP rigs to WIP meshes on Orion and Venus, and then copied the weight maps to each new rig via the Copy Joints From menu option. Once I was happy with the current rig and geometry I swapped the OBJ in the cr2 so that the mesh was solid, since the fitting room still refuses to create a mesh that isn't broken. Rinse and repeat along the way until I ran into another issue that needed adjustment, changing, etc.

    I've lost track of how many iterations of their rigs (and meshes) that I have now, it's in the hundreds for each. More for Orion since I've worked on him more. Last time I checked my Orion backup was nearly 40gb.

    Usually only needed minor adjustments to the weight maps on occasion, depending on how different the groups were from one version to the next. I didn't bother with any of the traditional Poser rigging except very early on when I was considering making them compatible with Poser 9 and below (no longer the case).

    ETA: I don't know what's up with the last post. It posted my response to a different thread here, so I deleted it, then tried to edit with this post. So it may or may not be there in ghost form, lol.



  • @AmbientShade said in New Poser figure in the making : Initial Feedback request.:

    ETA: I don't know what's up with the last post. It posted my response to a different thread here, so I deleted it, then tried to edit with this post. So it may or may not be there in ghost form, lol.

    I cleaned it up Shane, no worries.



  • I give some feedback. Overall it's a great work towards realism.

    I agree that she looks aged around 40. She makes me think of Hillary Clinton, may be cause we see her too much. For me it's ok, i'm really fed up of young half naked pin-ups. No man, no old, no normal people, just "porn stars" rather looking like dolls. but if you want to sell it, may be you should do a younger morph. It's a fact that the market seems for sexual misery.

    The idea of integrated boots puzzle me too. Must find a way to remove them if we want.

    Ludovic.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Thanks for the downvoting guys, it shows that I am on the right track and keeps the motivation flowing.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    OK, clothing building time this W-End.

    Everyday, usable, and wearable clothes in layers.

    As the integrated hair and boots were on the top half of page one of the 7 page long spec list, they are here to stay.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    OK guys here some feedback on the feedback. (We are listening to you)
    @ibr_remote

    • An Asian look face will be included. (Asian eyes twisted ala Lucy Liu is already included.)
    • Lighter colored inner hands are in the textures already.
    • All is completely UV_Mapped including the boots. (All main parts are symmetrical in the object file and in the UV_Map to make it easy for end users to adapt the textures with any 2D paint app that can paint symmetrical (like Krita, that I use))

    @AmbientShade

    • We gave some more flesh (volume) to the cheeks and around the lips
    • The hands will be looked into. => Agreed, they need more work.
    • Never heard that there was too much definition in a default figure before. LOL => But I agree , the neck muscles are too defined. => Will be looked into. => Perhaps this strong "neck" definition gives her that "older" look?
    • Leg and torso height are similar to other Poser figures. And this compares to my ref material. => See the compare render above between Pauline, Roxie, This one and Miki4. => But I will investigate the joint thigh joint were the leg bends.
    • The collar / shoulder bends will also be X-checked with ref material.

    INFO : The dynamic hair lashes looked far better, but they are replaced by normal lashes again.

    Thanks for all the inputs so far guys, keep it coming. We are reading and listening.



  • Thanks, @vilters


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Not much, just a next dynamic hair test.
    0_1477671691301_testing13-forum.jpg


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @vilters I think it's pretty lousy that people are downvoting your posts here, especially if they aren't giving any input aside from that. Maybe it's an accidental thing. I've mistakenly down voted posts a time or two in the past, mistaking the arrow for a scroll page button, like they have at rosity and other forums. So maybe it is something similar here. At any rate, don't let it get to you.

    And even if someone doesn't like the looks of a figure being developed, there is still good information that can be learned in a dev thread like this.

    The improvements in the face are good. You might also look at the corners of the mouth and eyes. In real people there is an overlap going on, where the bottom lip tucks under the top lip at the corners of the mouth. The same is true with eyes. Small details like that may seem nit-picky but it goes a long way in selling the realism of a 3D figure.

    Also, I think her neck is too straight, giving her a stiffened unnatural posture. If you look at the side profile of a human, the neck is more of an angle and the head sits a bit forward.

    This is just one example:
    alt text


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @vilters said in New Poser figure in the making : Initial Feedback request. (NSFW):

    Disadvantage : Euh, I amputated the ears. :-( Now she does not listen any more..... But then, LOL, what woman does? ? LOL.

    Well, that remark deserves to be downvoted and doesn't have anything to do with the figure.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @AmbientShade

    Last visit before bed-time.

    Ok, now I see more clearly what you mean by "too flat".

    i"ll look into that tomorrow.
    Thanks.