New Poser figure in the making : Initial Feedback request. (NSFW)



  • I give some feedback. Overall it's a great work towards realism.

    I agree that she looks aged around 40. She makes me think of Hillary Clinton, may be cause we see her too much. For me it's ok, i'm really fed up of young half naked pin-ups. No man, no old, no normal people, just "porn stars" rather looking like dolls. but if you want to sell it, may be you should do a younger morph. It's a fact that the market seems for sexual misery.

    The idea of integrated boots puzzle me too. Must find a way to remove them if we want.

    Ludovic.


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    Thanks for the downvoting guys, it shows that I am on the right track and keeps the motivation flowing.


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    OK, clothing building time this W-End.

    Everyday, usable, and wearable clothes in layers.

    As the integrated hair and boots were on the top half of page one of the 7 page long spec list, they are here to stay.


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    OK guys here some feedback on the feedback. (We are listening to you)
    @ibr_remote

    • An Asian look face will be included. (Asian eyes twisted ala Lucy Liu is already included.)
    • Lighter colored inner hands are in the textures already.
    • All is completely UV_Mapped including the boots. (All main parts are symmetrical in the object file and in the UV_Map to make it easy for end users to adapt the textures with any 2D paint app that can paint symmetrical (like Krita, that I use))

    @AmbientShade

    • We gave some more flesh (volume) to the cheeks and around the lips
    • The hands will be looked into. => Agreed, they need more work.
    • Never heard that there was too much definition in a default figure before. LOL => But I agree , the neck muscles are too defined. => Will be looked into. => Perhaps this strong "neck" definition gives her that "older" look?
    • Leg and torso height are similar to other Poser figures. And this compares to my ref material. => See the compare render above between Pauline, Roxie, This one and Miki4. => But I will investigate the joint thigh joint were the leg bends.
    • The collar / shoulder bends will also be X-checked with ref material.

    INFO : The dynamic hair lashes looked far better, but they are replaced by normal lashes again.

    Thanks for all the inputs so far guys, keep it coming. We are reading and listening.



  • Thanks, @vilters


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    Not much, just a next dynamic hair test.
    0_1477671691301_testing13-forum.jpg


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    @vilters I think it's pretty lousy that people are downvoting your posts here, especially if they aren't giving any input aside from that. Maybe it's an accidental thing. I've mistakenly down voted posts a time or two in the past, mistaking the arrow for a scroll page button, like they have at rosity and other forums. So maybe it is something similar here. At any rate, don't let it get to you.

    And even if someone doesn't like the looks of a figure being developed, there is still good information that can be learned in a dev thread like this.

    The improvements in the face are good. You might also look at the corners of the mouth and eyes. In real people there is an overlap going on, where the bottom lip tucks under the top lip at the corners of the mouth. The same is true with eyes. Small details like that may seem nit-picky but it goes a long way in selling the realism of a 3D figure.

    Also, I think her neck is too straight, giving her a stiffened unnatural posture. If you look at the side profile of a human, the neck is more of an angle and the head sits a bit forward.

    This is just one example:
    alt text


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    @vilters said in New Poser figure in the making : Initial Feedback request. (NSFW):

    Disadvantage : Euh, I amputated the ears. :-( Now she does not listen any more..... But then, LOL, what woman does? ? LOL.

    Well, that remark deserves to be downvoted and doesn't have anything to do with the figure.


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    @AmbientShade

    Last visit before bed-time.

    Ok, now I see more clearly what you mean by "too flat".

    i"ll look into that tomorrow.
    Thanks.


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    @vilters - if you want feedback on shapes could you post some renders/screenshots using the front & left/right cameras with smooth shaded on, default pose, plain background & flat lighting please? Basically avoiding camera perspective & texturing. Would be easier to comment that way.


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    @Biscuits Ah, I didn't even notice that.

    @Vilters Good reference is one of the most crucial tools for any 3D modeler. Tons of good reference, from every angle possible, every body shape possible. It's very obvious whether someone used reference or just built something based on memory or how they think something is or should be. Ego makes us think we know what something looks like because we see it every day, but just seeing it every day isn't enough and can actually be detrimental because you tend to overlook small details, and then wonder why it doesn't look right in the end.



  • @vilters My initial reaction was "that looks like Judy", one of the earlier Poser figures. Which is neither praise nor criticism, just an observation.

    I cannot fault your decision to eliminate or minimise JCMs, but I'd like to share some critical observations on realistic 3D human figure development in general.

    Most things people find odd about 3D figures tend to be very subtle and subjective, yet our brains are hard-wired for facial recognition, and the "uncanny valley" may still be a valid consideration for 3D rendering, even though a 2D image is unlikely to ever be passed off as a living person.

    I have huge admiration for sculptors who work in stone and produce believable (ignoring texture and materials) human figures. Some of the master sculptors were even reported to have resorted to dissection of cadavers to explore underlying muscular and bone structure to give their creations added realism. Visual references are obviously an absolute necessity, but sometimes one needs to drill deeper. Multi-angle photo references of a subject to be modelled may provide sufficient information for a static pose, but when the pose is altered, will standard joint zones deliver the correct shape to be true-to-life? [That's why Poser was invented, so we don't have to dig up cadavers or work as volunteers in the morgue ;-) ]

    High-end modellers (I refer to PhD candidates, rather than software packages) look at things like constant muscle volume (the water in muscle cells doesn't disappear between the muscle's extension and flexion) which causes the skin to bulge when the muscle is flexed. Our joints don't all have fixed centres (The knee cartilage changes its radius of curvature as the knee bends so the tendons don't have to overstretch). The bones of the skeleton are essentially rigid, so joint zones need to account for possible bone-fixed exclusions. (Think of the hip-abdomen-chest joints twisting; the skin over the hip-bones and the bottom of the rib-cage don't move relative to that body part, which can cause creasing on extreme twists at the sides).

    TL;DR In short, at the very least, I'm advocating putting a skeleton (not joint bones, but a 3D modeled skeleton) inside your figure to inform what joint rotations should realistically look like and prevent poke-through. The skeleton doesn't need to be part of the model produced or hugely detailed, just scaled to fit your model's T-pose and conformed to follow.

    Anyway, It feels as though you're a lot further through the modelling process than my suggestions would have any impact on without a major re-design, and Poser is a long way from offering finite-element analysis for constant volume muscles. (Let alone dual-quaternion support, dig, dig, hint, hint ;-) )

    Keep up the good work!


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    Thanks for the feedback.

    Judy? Whaw, never even thought of her before. :-)

    No, this figure started out as a reproduction of a real person. (but that was many moons ago) Then she got her own life. :-) when i said to myself ; "Why not make something releasable."

    It is not supposed to be a V4 or Gen replacement. Oh no, not by far.

    They (yes , they) are supposed to be "everyday clothed" and usable figures, right out of the box. This is for the "clothed population" here. :-)

    Everything that is under the clothes is just a bonus.
    But I am trying to make them as good as possible and as good as Poser allows me to do so. Yes, from time to time I also run into Poser's limitations, but let's work around those, OK?

    And I use some new technology, or tips and tricks. (or things nobody has ever done before.) They will also be Poser technology demonstrators with a Poser tech video on YouTube so everybody can get all the info about the figure, the dynamic hair, and perhaps most of all, the texturing and clothes technology. All this belongs to the "Poser2Blender2Poser" series that is already on YouTube under my name, and now you can add Krita to that list. At least one of these has to get done, before I can continue the video series.

    Have a nice day all.



  • About finding new ways: since you are exploring and not apparently afraid to take an unorthodox position may I suggest a few options to, possibly, advance the way we work?

    • boots conforming to the figure at shin level but shin having no geometry. Unless they are skin-tight, the 'sleeves' of boots move independent from the shin. At the foot there necessarily is little movement between boot and foot, or the wearer will have blisters. Therefore better make the shin part of the boot geometry a separate actor.
    • Same for jackets. Jackets and coats hang from the chest and shoulders. When I wear a jacket and twist my waist, the jacket at that height moves with the shoulders (unless I tied the jacket at the waist, of course).
      When I bend my torso forward, the hem of my jacket is pulled up at the back. Unlike a traditionally rigged Poser conforming jacket, the back of my jacket does not mysteriously become longer.
      Waist, abdomen and hip can have counterparts, with geometry and rigged from chest down, to simulate rotation or to be simulated dynamically as a body part as garment.

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    Project update for you all:

    Well, I was in for a "wild ride" this W-End.

    Changed the UV-Map yesterday hereby loosing about a weeks work.
    Changed the UV_Map again today. LOL.
    But? Almost back on track.

    Now we have only 2 maps ( diffuse and transmap ). Less lost surface and 33% more texture detail.
    And?? Super easy to work with in the material room. (also one of the main goals)

    This figure is going to be super easy to retexture for vendors and end customers.

    @fverbaas
    Yes, I am still waiting for what people want for "everyday outfits".
    We are close to starting clothing creation.

    While the figure is NOT fully weightmapped, I think most of the clothing will be to get where you and I want to go.

    Thanks for the comments, they are in the book.

    best regards, Tony





  • I never use dynamics. Is it possible to pre-style dynamic hair so one does not have to run a simulation or whatever it's called? If the clothes aren't dynamic, you'd be doing that just for the hair. Or, can you make dynamic hair invisible and parent a conforming hair?



  • In theory, yes, you can style the hair rather than draping it. But unless you're used to them, the styling tools can be rather unwieldy. With as short as Vilters posted, you probably wouldn't need to drape it except in more extreme poses. Slight tilts of the head I wouldn't bother.


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    There are lots of ways to work with dynamic hair.

    There is just one MAJOR problem right now. => When you grow the hair directly on the figure as I do, the hair simm is lost when you save the figure to library. => BUMMER.
    => Reported to SM.
    Fortunately, I found an easy simm that goes well all the time. Joepie. => After reloading the figure, simm the hair (it takes no more then 5 seconds), and you are ready.
    => Advantage is that the simm goes better on a posed figure this way. => It follows gravity and is thus more realistic.

    • Yes you can style the hairs but that styling does not follow gravity when bending the figure. => You more or less turn a dynamic hair into a prop. (And it does not save to library when you grow it directly on the figure.) => Reported to SM.

    • yes, you can morph the figure ( load a head morph or FBM to get a different hairflow.) => Morphs work on dynamic hairs. => Recalc the simm, and the hair follows your new morph. => This works all the time.

    • Yes you can either delete or hide the hair to replace it by another hair .

    The hair will be included in the tech demo video that will accompany the release of this figure.

    Have a good week all.


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    Project unfortunately stopped till a solution can be found.

    Poser keeps breaking the obj file when growing dynamic hair directly on the figure and then saving the figure into library. Poser keeps breaking it up into individual groups.

    For those that are in the know it is 31615 AGAIN !!
    BUMMER-BUMMER-BUMMER !

    Bangs head into wall,
    Wall wins.