New Poser figure in the making : Initial Feedback request. (NSFW)


  • Poser Ambassadors

    OK, following tech demo and these 3 simple rules, it is time to go into production modus.

    • White is color, Black is no color. (or texture)
    • White is solid, Black is transparant.
    • White is shine, Black is no shine.

    3 more rules to follow/

    • FireFly AND SuperFly like Bump maps.
    • FireFly does not like Normal maps.
    • SuperFly can not do MicroDisplacement.

    FIREFLY and PhysicalRoot are a match from heaven.

    SuperFly has NO CLUE what's going on in front of, or behind transmaps.

    => Depending on the type of light and the position of the light, it creates some NASTY shadows behind and in front of the transmaps as can be seen in the SuperFly demo above. => The worst in SuperFly are the shadows IN FRONT of transmaps.



  • @vilters said in New Poser figure in the making : Initial Feedback request. (NSFW):

    SuperFly has NO CLUE what's going on in front of, or behind transmaps.

    I'm not sure what you mean by this.

    Superfly and Cycles are reverse path tracers, so you have to define not only the proper number of transparency bounces but what the shader is supposed to do with those bounces as well.

    That's one of the differences between SF and FF simply because of which way the path tracer looks when rendering.
    You can't always do transparency, translucency, transmission, etc, the same way in SF as you do in FF.



  • @maestro said in New Poser figure in the making : Initial Feedback request. (NSFW):

    What does even mean?

    Some developers aim for their figures to be able to do contortion. I see no use for that. If figures can do normal gym poses and yoga poses like the ones you can learn at the gym next door that is fine with me.



  • @F_Verbaas said in New Poser figure in the making : Initial Feedback request. (NSFW):

    Some developers aim for their figures to be able to do contortion. I see no use for that.

    Rigging a figure to be a contortionist has advantages. One being far smoother maps that translate to the cloth better.
    Joints will look better near the end of what most people consider the normal range as well.

    Take the Yoga pose for example.

    alt text

    The pose is not really that extreme in some regards, and is in others. Every ones arms should be able to do what the woman is doing in the pose. Even what her right leg is doing. The only part of the pose that would get most people is the left leg, but even that is deceiving based off of the angle of her hip. There are very few extreme bends in that pose, strenuous yes, but not extreme enough to be considered a contortionist.

    In my opinion, every Poser figure should be able to do that pose.
    Simply because being able to do it will ensure that poses with less bend work even better as a whole.
    The figure is a base for everything that comes afterwards.

    alt text

    .



  • @vilters said in New Poser figure in the making : Initial Feedback request. (NSFW):

    @morkonan
    That is some great feedback. Allow to answer later in detail please.

    No problem! I realize I'm verbose, but I like to cover as much as possible to limit having to rehash things in followups. :)

    On the UVMap -

    Any issues with texture lapp/compression under the breasts, sides of nose, corners of the mouth, bottoms/sides of teeth and, <ahem> ..v-jay-jay? (Note, if you wish to semi-protect the model from illicit rendering you can overlap the uv, twist it, effectively invert it, in a particular area of the nether-region. It won't prevent it, though. Also - They'll be some criticisms, to be sure. Not sure how strong your opinion is, there.)

    Grouping the nails in one area would be beneficial, the same goes for the toenails as well as giving them a bit more texture-space. Any custom texture work, like nail patterns, simple colors, etc would be easier for the user that way. (ie: No use using custom nail pattern on that texture space since any renders it would be used for wouldn't be worth rendering without higher res texture space. It all depends on how far you're willing to go to give the user flexibility.)

    On the perils of unified UV's for high-res rendering - Working to eliminate texture seams and materials-effect issues is great. But you may wish to consider a multimap with a separate eyes/eyelashes/mouth/nails map. For a high-resolution rendering figure, these areas are always the most in-need of higher resolutions, especially eyelashes, which require hi-res transmaps to be rendered at closeup resolutions. Generated materials can serve for some issues, but they won't do for eye close-ups or textured fingernail designs that some people might want to use on hand-closeups. (I know... the dead horse... it's being beaten... :)

    Texture space is coming at a premium, isn't it? ;)

    Any chance to see your what your ideas are on grouping and rigging?

    Wires? I love me some delicious wire renders! :)

    Great job, keep up the good work!



  • @shvrdavid said in New Poser figure in the making : Initial Feedback request. (NSFW):

    ...
    In my opinion, every Poser figure should be able to do that pose.
    Simply because being able to do it will ensure that poses with less bend work even better as a whole.
    The figure is a base for everything that comes afterwards.

    Absofrigginlutely!

    But, then there's the issue of standard rigging and group creation vs other rigging schemes. With standard rigging's limitations on deformations across neighboring groups only and subsequent necessary inclusions of JCMs to help correct for that, one starts to encounter standard deformer limits fairly quickly and starts to pile on the JCMs, which I feel most people here wish to avoid as much as possible. (Including things like controlled magnets and the like, I assume.)

    For myself, when considering a product like this, the first qualification is use - Is it a high-res or low-res rendering figure? If the latter, I honestly don't care how heavy it is, what its texture load is (as long as it'll fit in the card) how many JCMs it has or the complexity of its rigging. If the former, then I care a great deal, since it's likely to be replicated many times and memory load starts to creep up. (Animation isn't a personal concern, but many of the requirements for good models/rigging are.)

    IOW - For me, Poser is a higher def renderer than a game engine or a standard animation platform, so I like heavy load models with a lot of care taken for details and realism in poses in still renders. Bulk animators or those who do lots of animation with Poser might disagree strongly, though. (Note: There are quite a few people using it for web-comic still renders, too. Numbers on the user market across the spectrum might help figure creators.)



  • I have to be honest in saying I can't get my head around the boots, as an attempt to stop XXX use as I would have thought creators of such images would have been happy to have a figure clad only in boots to work with, but that is just my opinion.

    No objection to single texture map but with the caveat that the eyes etc as mentioned by morkonan above are hi-res enough.

    There is also something about the hairstyle with the fringe showing that doesn't look quite right to my eyes, the fringe appears to grow from under the top hair.

    All in all though great progress and I look forward to seeing further results.

    ... and when you get to a beta test stage, just remember there are a lot of unemployed RDNA testers out there who would be happy to give their feedback. :)



  • @shvrdavid said in New Poser figure in the making : Initial Feedback request. (NSFW):

    In my opinion, every Poser figure should be able to do that pose.

    And that is exactly what I wanted to say.
    Call it the 'Lesmills Test'. The kind of workout designed to be done by Jo and Judie Average, and which I think Poser figures should be able to follow.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    This post is deleted!

  • Poser Ambassadors

    Looking at Belgium Holland 1-1
    Did this in between : (added wrong picture before)
    0_1478727884484_yoga-1.jpg


  • Poser Ambassadors

    As we humans can not "side-side" our forearms or shins? These are locked in this figure too.



  • @vilters said in New Poser figure in the making : Initial Feedback request. (NSFW):

    As we humans can not "side-side" our forearms or shins? These are locked in this figure too.

    In my personal experience locking all of those axis is not always the best idea. Sometimes you can use those axes to further support the joint versus locking the option out entirely. Note that the elbow/knee does not move side to side in the examples you mentioned, but flesh does when the joint is flexed. Some of that can be done with the bulge maps of the axes you locked out



  • @vilters said in New Poser figure in the making : Initial Feedback request. (NSFW):

    As we humans can not "side-side" our forearms or shins? These are locked in this figure too.

    Don't limit the user's options in an unconventional manner. Doing so will only cause double-plus-ungood reception for little gain. :) There are times when a few degrees of non-standard rotation can achieve a more realistic pose due to topology flow or rigging issues. Instead, if you're serious about it, use the Set Limits option so that users can check/uncheck Limits in the figure menu if they wish to avoid such rotations.

    (ie: x rotation in V4's arm can cause pinching/crowding of faces, causing rigging to over-act with bulges. A slight few degrees with the forearm can complete the pose without making this abnormal forearm rotation obvious. V4's shin can be slightly z-rotated without causing issues in order to prevent the thigh from having to over-rotate and causing crowding/pinching issues that a big thigh rotation would cause due to standard rigging.)

    Empowering users is A Good Thing, always. The moment you give someone something, they rejoice! But, the moment you take something away, out come the torches and pitchforks...


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Hello guys, thanks for the feedback.

    Yes some bends will be enhanced by bulge maps.
    Bulge maps are also used to get some of the flesh movements like biceps when bending the forearms. => This is GOOD and it is BAD at the same time because only PoserPro11 can transfer bulge maps into clothing. (PoserPro10 only transfers the weightmap but forgets the bulge map.)
    And? => Limits can always be turned OFF by the end users.
    And? => Most of this does not matter that much under clothes.
    And? => They will come out clothed.

    But? We try to get the best bends in these figures. It is always a bonus to get the best bends possible.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    She : "Help? Somebody tell this guy to stop cutting me up? Please?"
    Me : "Sorry dear, some parts had to be finetuned".
    She : "Now what?"
    Me : "What's the matter this time?"
    She : "I just lost all my morphs? Again. And again, and all over Grrrr. . . Again"
    Me : "Sorry babe , I know."
    She : "And wow what?"
    Me : "Tja, back to default boots and hair for a couple of days".
    She : "I don't wanna wear the same hair for days on end, and BTW, I liked my other hairs too!"
    Me : "I liked your other boots too, but you"ll get your hairs and footwear back, no worries."
    She : "Hurry up man, and glue me back".
    Me : " Yeah, yeah, no panic in the house. Want some coffee with that reweld?
    She : "Damm you, I grew in the process. More poly's then before?
    Me : " Yep, you gained 6 vertex including taxes."

    She : "Just leave me alone now".
    Me: " Whatever you say dear."