Should Poser be able to read .duf files?



  • So here's the situation in a nutshell, a certain vendor who i shall not name, is leaving Rendo for DAZ. I don't have a problem with that, really. However, one of the things I am concerned about, and i don't know for certain, is whether or not the vendor will start making his props and scenes in .duf format only, which Poser does not read.

    Frankly, I'd like to be able to use props from some of these DAZ vendors, but I'm not giving up my Poser, and those vendors don't seem to want to support Poser users by making a Poser version.

    So should Poser be able to at least be able to read and use the .duf files from Studio?



  • I'd love this capability. While I'm not interested in any of the Genesis figures, Daz has a lot of great architecture and my initial trials with the DSON converter/converter thing-a-ma-jig didn't go well.



  • .Duf files cannot be read by anything except Studio. This was a deliberate attempt to isolate the Poser community, as it largely seems to be a script that hides and then accesses .obj files, which just about everything DOES read. I agree it's frustrating not being to able to access some of the stuff that's for Studio, but I'd much rather learn to do it myself than see Poser be wagged by the DAZ tail. There had been mention some time ago of a method to convert .duf files to something that can be ready by software other than Studio, but unfortunately that tutorial never eventuated.
    Personally, given that DAZ makes it's money by selling content, I'd rather pressure them by buying what works for my software, not by asking the software designer to suit one content vendor, but that's just my opinion.

    These threads degenerate really fast, so I won't be engaging any further; you asked a question, I've submitted to you my thoughts, but they are just my thoughts.

    Good luck.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    If you have dson importer installed, you can use Dimension3D's DSONLoader script to load all DUF files in Poser.
    This works fine for most props and figures. The script is free at http://d3d.sesseler.de/index.php?software=poserpython&product=dson_loader
    The props can be saved in the poser library and afterwards be used without DSON importer installed.
    The figures can cause problems when subd has been used on them.

    After you have imported the props, you still need to attach the texture maps. Diffuse will be loaded, but other maps not. And you probably will put some decent shaders on them.

    If instancing has been used, you need to duplicate the instanced props. If a lot of them have been used, it will be a heavy load in Poser. If just a few are used, it will work fine. The trick I use is to find the stub in the hierarchy, copy its properties on the clipboard, then find its original, duplicate and paste the properties to set it to its correct position, scale and rotation.

    I have successfully done this with several products (Stonemason, Faveral and others)

    Support for DUF would need to deal with these issues as well, which is not an easy task


  • Poser Ambassadors

    The tools to use and work with duf files in Poser exist. Those that want to use duf files are free to do so. No point here.

    DAZ choose this path, and honestly (I think it was Steve Cooper who said this at the time) Smith Micro can not make itself a slave of another company because it chooses another road to walk on.

    it is like a mariage that breaks. One can separate as friends or fight? But in the end, you have to make your own future.

    Actually, I am feeling very sad about the whole thing, but we have to be honest (and I love Poser)

    • the market follows the better figures
    • the better figures bring more customers
    • more customers bring more vendors
    • the market shifts and more and more jump ship

    In the end it not about who has the best app, but about who has the better figures, and the marketing machine to support them.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Lets not get into the software debate thing.

    As Wim said in his post, you can easily import much of the studio content into Poser using the DSON and D3D script.

    Yes it takes a bit of work on the Users part to do so, but it can be done.

    Thank you for adding the link to the script Wim.



  • @shvrdavid I'm not looking to start a fight. I asked an honest question and put it out there. The topic doesn't have to degenrate. That said, I'm not interested in using DSON, although if the process were a bit more simplified, I'd at least be willing to use the D3D script to convert the files and apply the textures. Although, in a large scene with lots of MAT zones, even that could be a bit onerous.


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    @eclark1849 said in Should Poser be able to read .duf files?:

    @shvrdavid I'm not looking to start a fight. I asked an honest question and put it out there. The topic doesn't have to degenrate. That said, I'm not interested in using DSON, although if the process were a bit more simplified, I'd at least be willing to use the D3D script to convert the files and apply the textures. Although, in a large scene with lots of MAT zones, even that could be a bit onerous.

    The DSON importer translates the DUF files to poser readable files. Once you save those in the library, you can use those without the DSON importer. So no need to use DSON after you have imported them
    The conversion.loading of the materials can be very tedious, I completely agree. But to correct that, we really have to have the creators to do that. PBR should make that easier since both DS and Poser now, since use some form of PBR where most of the maps would be the same.

    To give you an example that you can get good results, here a sample of an image i am working on which uses the Streets of London set of Stonemason

    0_1477792133095_timtra1.jpg


  • Poser Ambassadors

    I'm not worried about what you asked, it was a valid question.

    In a large scene, there is a lot to do material wise.
    But you only have to do it once for the most part, then save the modified scene.

    I just don't want the thread to deteriorate.
    Most of us know the history of things, no need to rehash it over and over.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Personally I'd rather see the Poser devs spend their resources on making content creators lives easier and the tools more streamlined and modern, than to see them chasing after 3rd party file formats. Maybe then they'll start attracting more content artists to their software, and thus more content and customers for everyone.



  • @wimvdb Does this work with Poser Pro 11? Have you tried it?



  • @AmbientShade Poser's whole existence has been accommodating 3rd parties. And giving Poser the ability to read and save in the .duf format would be extremely helpful to content creators. Right now, if I want to make a prop that will work in Studio, I can make it in Blender, import it into Poser and save it in Poser format as a .pp2 file. I can then take that pp2 file and open it in DS, save it as a .duf file. If Poser could read and save in that format I wouldn't even have to open DS.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @eclark1849 Yeah, that's true. But you're still leaving out some key differences between the two, and this debate has gone on for years now. So I'll clarify my previous statement. If it was a simple process that didn't take a lot of time or resources away from Poser's core development in order to implement it, and if it didn't require constantly making updates any time there were changes made to the duf format, then I don't see a problem with it. It would be beneficial in that regard, yes. But I would prefer to see Poser move forward and develop its own cutting edge tools in order to stay relevant in todays market in the face of everything else that exists out there now, and fix the long standing issues that it has had once and for all. If adding duf support to Poser doesn't detract from those other more pressing issues (imo) then I think it would be a fine idea. More compatibility is always better.



  • @AmbientShade Fair enough. I'm not asking SM to give this request any kind of priority. Trust me, I'd much rather have the development team work on other things like Hair room or Cloth room enhancements or developing instancing.



  • @maestro yes - see my gallery post at DeviantArt, thanks

    [http://fav.me/dabtf4p](link url)



  • I have to agree with wimvdb, importing DUF files into Poser using DSON and the D3D script (i use Advanced Library Manger which can read the DUF files through that combo directly) does most of the time work pretty well. There is additional work to do on the materials as already said.

    BUT i do miss one important aspect not mentioned yet and that is about the geometry. DS and Poser do work completely different in regard to mesh smoothing for objects with hard surfaces/corners
    like environments and this often becomes an issue.

    In Poser you can/have to play with the crease angle to get better results but thats very limited. Poser works best with smoothing groups but DS has no support for them. I often find myself loading an imported OBJ file into 3DCoat as it has an option for automatically adding smoothing groups that works pretty well.



  • Just a fast question or two. I am pretty sure the method of reading DUF files probably works but for someone who has the means to do this what happens when you try to read one of the new Encrypted files? If you can read the file and get it into Poser then the encryption is useless, if you cannot can someone explain how they plan to decrypt the files for use in Poser?


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @richard60 said in Should Poser be able to read .duf files?:

    Just a fast question or two. I am pretty sure the method of reading DUF files probably works but for someone who has the means to do this what happens when you try to read one of the new Encrypted files? If you can read the file and get it into Poser then the encryption is useless, if you cannot can someone explain how they plan to decrypt the files for use in Poser?

    Encrypted files probably won't work. I have not yet encountered them in the items i wanted to purchase. If so, i probably skip it



  • @wimvdb said in Should Poser be able to read .duf files?:

    @richard60 said in Should Poser be able to read .duf files?:

    Just a fast question or two. I am pretty sure the method of reading DUF files probably works but for someone who has the means to do this what happens when you try to read one of the new Encrypted files? If you can read the file and get it into Poser then the encryption is useless, if you cannot can someone explain how they plan to decrypt the files for use in Poser?

    Encrypted files probably won't work. I have not yet encountered them in the items i wanted to purchase. If so, i probably skip it

    No encrypted items can't be opened using the Poser DSON importer. You have to open the item in Daz Studio then either export as an .obj for props or as a cr2/.obj for clothing items...
    or wait for 1 year from the release of the item for daz to then start selling the product unencrypted (1 year hasn't passed since daz started encrypting products so no items have been decrypted yet)



  • @ eclark, Have you tried exporting the props from DAZ as FBX? and importing them back into poser? Moriador
    on the old RDNA forum showed me the work flow. I've imported several DAZ only scenes this way. TBH after given Dson a real go, I just find it a painful experience to use in Poser.
    Link to the old thread http://forum.runtimedna.com/showthread.php?96881-Genesis-1-amp-2-in-Poser-as-native-Poser-figures&highlight=genesis+poser. Please take note of Moridor's Caveat though - but it's worked beautifully for me.