IDL in Poser 11: a step back from Poser 10



  • Thanks again! The light intensities in your set are 32% and 28%. The key is the envsphere HDR which cuts down the amount of reflected light. I was using plain white which I suspect tends to amplify the lighting.



  • @englishbob

    Hi there

    Sorry, for not posting this setup and HDR sooner, its sometimes hard to replicate someone light setup

    I usually use that setup for portrait renders in FF and in SF I use similar with two area lights, sometimes I use 3

    Just in Poser 11 and FF don't use Area lights, because they will slow down rendering, on other hand in SF are probably best and I prefer to use them

    In few renders I've used only spot lights for portrait scenes and they worked pretty much OK

    I will try to make few renders to show you differences between two of the light setup, point lights I use rarely, not sure why

    Wish we have or could use IES profiles and have proper mesh lights like in other SW

    Hope this helps

    Thanks, Jura



  • @englishbob said in IDL in Poser 11: a step back from Poser 10:

    The speed-up in the Poser 11 render may be a sign that some optimisation has been done.

    The ray accelerator was upgraded, which improved performance for many scenes. It should not have caused the type of issue you're describing though.

    We're unable to reproduce, could you please file a ticket via https://support.smithmicro.com and provide a collected scene that does? Ideally it would be just the dress, or something even simpler if that is possible.

    Thanks!



  • @ghostship said in IDL in Poser 11: a step back from Poser 10:
    ..

    Sir, we have a warrant for your arrest. LOL.

    That's fine. Put it in my In-Box with all the other ones... :)



  • @englishbob said in IDL in Poser 11: a step back from Poser 10:
    ...

    You can see the blotching where the folds in her skirt are. The difference between our scenes is that your dress is close fitting and doesn't have folds. I think the Poser 11 IDL algorithm is going wrong when it has to deal with areas which are both curved and not well lit.

    Somewhere on the way from the previous version to the latest one it got broken.

    What are your light settings?

    I know we all run to D3D's awesome render panel, but all-too-often I see people ignore posting their light settings, which are arguably more important in some instances.

    (I haven't had a chance to check Jura's included lightset file, yet.)



  • @Uli-Klumpp said in IDL in Poser 11: a step back from Poser 10:

    The ray accelerator was upgraded, which improved performance for many scenes. It should not have caused the type of issue you're describing though.

    We're unable to reproduce, could you please file a ticket via https://support.smithmicro.com and provide a collected scene that does? Ideally it would be just the dress, or something even simpler if that is possible.

    I'll try. I don't have hard evidence, but I have the impression that the contents of the scene have a bearing on the artifacts, even though they may not receive any blotches themselves. At the moment I'm trying to create a distributable scene that shows the effect strongly.



  • By Jove, I think I've got it. The trigger - one trigger, anyway - seems to be having 'Smooth Polygons' enabled in the render settings. This produces many more artifacts in Poser 11 than it does in Poser 10.

    Summary of render results

    This gives me a relatively simple, distributable scene that I sent to Smith Micro when I raised a support ticket:

    http://www.morphography.uk.vu/public/TestScene.pzz

    Everything in there was made by me, so you can do what you want with it. Even if you aren't interested in the rendering issues, there's a dynamic sports dress in there which you're free to use as you wish. It fits Antonia. Think of it as your reward for ploughing through all the verbiage. :)

    As others have said earlier in the thread, applying subdivision to the dress does sort out the blotches in this case; it isn't a universal fix. Some objects I've tried break up if I apply subdivision to them, and of course there's also the question of impact on computer resources, and hence rendering time, if the result of subdiv is lots of polygons.

    You're welcome to try the scene for yourselves, with whatever settings you choose. I don't wish to appear grumpy, but I'm not particularly interested in hearing advice on how to work around this problem; I have a work-around already. However others may stumble across this thread, and they may be interested, so have at it if you feel so inclined. :)

    As I said, a support case has been raised as recommended by @Uli-Klumpp. Maybe in the fullness of time there will be an update which fixes it. My fingers are crossed, which is why my typing is so erratic. :)



  • One more off-topic thing, while I remember. If I open a URL that points to a compressed Poser file in any browser, plain text is displayed.

    Edited to add: you can also just drag-and-drop the file onto a new window in your browser. There's no need to upload it.

    Browsers know about Gzip compression and automagically uncompress it. That may be worth knowing if you need to uncompress a file and don't have access to an application to do it for you.



  • @englishbob can you zip that file up before uploading? All aI get is a text file. After changing the file extender to .pzz it gives an error when you try to open it and does not work.



  • @ghostship said in IDL in Poser 11: a step back from Poser 10:

    @englishbob can you zip that file up before uploading? All aI get is a text file. After changing the file extender to .pzz it gives an error when you try to open it and does not work.

    Just right-click on the link and choose 'Save link as...' or whatever equivalent your browser offers.

    Alternatively if you save the text file, change its extension to .pz3 since it's no longer compressed.



  • @englishbob Got it working.

    As other have said, 1 level of Sub D and it looks fine. In fact, just turning off smoothing fixed the problem.

    0_1479313221044_1lvlSubD.jpg



  • P11's Firefly renderer is slightly different somehow, but it hasn't bothered me that much yet. I use these settings and I haven't come across any real trouble.

    alt text



  • @englishbob said in IDL in Poser 11: a step back from Poser 10:

    The trigger - one trigger, anyway - seems to be having 'Smooth Polygons' enabled in the render settings.

    This gives me a relatively simple, distributable scene that I sent to Smith Micro when I raised a support ticket:

    Excellent, thanks a lot for narrowing it down.



  • @erogenesis said in IDL in Poser 11: a step back from Poser 10:

    P11's Firefly renderer is slightly different somehow, but it hasn't bothered me that much yet. I use these settings and I haven't come across any real trouble.

    alt text

    Min shading rate of 0 doesn't give any benefit because this number is overridden by the larger number on individual bodyparts/models in their property settings. I'm guessing you already know this but just in case you did not.



  • @ghostship said in IDL in Poser 11: a step back from Poser 10:

    Min shading rate of 0 doesn't give any benefit because this number is overridden by the larger number on individual bodyparts/models in their property settings. I'm guessing you already know this but just in case you did not.

    lol no I didn't know that. I obtained these settings mostly by experimenting with the values and checking the results over the years. I just wanted to get on with making comics... :P


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    @erogenesis

    By default the MSR setting is overwritten by 0.2 on a "vertex group by vertex group" level at render time.
    (PS : it is in the manual)

    => If you want to go lower then 0.2 MSR you have to set this value lower for EACH and EVERY vertex group in your scene..... And that can be many. LOL. => I use 1.000 for draft; 0.5 for medium, and 0.2 for High Quality. Going lower then 0.2 has no use if you do not adapt the vertex groups settings.

    While we are here: Most settings look normal but what I do:

    • Irradiance caching goes to 0 (zero)
    • Indirect light Quality goes to 100 (maxed out)
    • Pixel samples : 13 is extremely high, most of the effect maxes out at about 5 to 6. => I use 3 for draft, and 5 to 6 for quality.

    Max bucket size depends on available memory, but if you have dynamic hair or so in the scene it is best to bring it back down to 32.
    Min displacement bounds prefers a small value like 0.001 => See manual because you have "Use Displacement Maps" checked ON.

    Right hand side:

    • I always have Smooth Polygons set to ON, but a lot of content is not build for that, and has to be changed in its parameters palette. (Yeah, again, on a vertex group level.)
    • Post filter size : For clearest and sharpest results set to 3 and Sync. (depends, 2 to 3 at sync seems sharpest)
      (Box at higher values will get softer or blurry images)

    best regards, Tony



  • haha waw. Well thanks vilters. I did kind of know most of those things but like I said, I get very different results when experimenting, especially with the pixel samples. If I go lower than 13 I start seeing certain artifacts in certain situations (I can't remember what but this value works very well for me). With post filter my images go blurry if I remember correctly, I prefer them sharp. Smooth polys, mja, rarely had a need for that, only if something is very blocky might I use it.

    But anyway I'll play around with your setting when I have time. thanks



  • tried your settings and compared to mine with this render.

    alt text

    Conclusion: no difference lol. Same render times. IDL behaves the same. The little shadows were ever so slightly darker in mine, but hardly noticeable really. The 13 pixel samples probably starts becoming more evident in the IDL results when the area is poorly lit.

    PS: I forgot about the post filter stuff. that was still set to 1
    PSS: changed post filter size to 3. Result: hardly any difference to be honest.


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    Thanks for the feedback.
    You have a lovely lady there.
    Good work.



  • cheers! her name is Miyu :)