New UI for Poser 12?



  • I read in another forum that there was some discussion/rumour/threat/promise about a new UI with Poser 12 (or whatever it'll be called). Is this true?


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Do you have a link?



  • A link?....jeez, I can't even remember where I left my glasses four minutes ago. I thought it was Pervertedotica maybe? The big price drop of P11 has led to a lot of speculation regarding a new release.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Can't find anything.
    I just wondered who said that.



  • Maybe this would be a good time to start a discussion here.
    As a professional graphic artist (41 years and still at it) I pretty much live in Adobe. I also have multiple monitors. It's so nice to be able to spread my pallets out on the second one leaving the good monitor free for the main window. I get the feeling that Poser is aimed towards the casual user on a laptop with it's insistence on 'rooms'. In Daz I can arrange all the pallets as nested tabs, giving me an interface that's pretty much the same no matter what I'm doing. In Poser I have to drag everything over to my second monitor in EVERY ROOM. I also have to do this after every upgrade. I want (demand/beg/plead/threaten/ask nicely)....
    -pallets as nested tabs.
    -change that goofy face/hand camera controller to something all grown up. It looks like an orphan from the groovy sixties.
    -why are the dynamics controls spread over four (five?) little boxes? Amalgamate them please.
    -fix the bloody library. SR5 (PP11) finally made it work but it still has one basic flaw. In Daz, all items (properties) in a runtime are available while in that runtime. In Poser I have to go to the top and select 'materials' or 'poses' to apply the poses to the item I've just added. With large runtimes it's easy to forget what the item is named and I get lost.
    ...or....
    Make a 'smart' library that knows what properties (poses, materials, etc) fit on a selected item. There's been a couple of add-ons that have attempted that, but none of them have worked worth stink. I'd love to be able to drop an item of clothing on Vicky Four then right click it (while still in the pose window) and have a list of poses or materials pop up and let me scroll through to pick the one I wanted to apply.
    -when I select something in the scene I want it to be highlighted in the hierarchy pallet.
    -speaking of the hierarchy pallet, DON'T open items completely unless I select it. Closing the unneeded items is laborious.
    -still speaking of the hierarchy pallet, let me hide the junk that clutters it. Why does it list the item and a 'body'? Aren't they the same thing? There's several properties that just clutter the pallet. It's nice that they're available if I need them but I usually don't. Take a lesson from Daz here.
    -The lighting icon/tool thingy needs to be rethought. It works (kinda) but....

    Remember Blender before 2.5? It was horrible. We screamed bloody murder for years for the programmers to puh-leaze make it human-understandable. There was a lot of ego in the way; the programmers feeling that grinding through the damned goofball interface was a right of passage. Under unrelenting pressure they finally changed it....and what happened? Usage exploded! Almost overnight the userbase went stratospheric because people could now actually make sense of it. They get HALF A MILLION DOWNLOADS A MONTH NOW...wow. All because it's not horrible to use.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @pleasejustwork said in New UI for Poser 12?:

    rea

    I actually prefer the Poser interface much more as the DS or Blender UI. Much cleaner in my opinion. I have a dual monitor setup as well and move the pallets around to where I want them. For each room it is different. And I use the UI dots to change the UI to accomodate the task i am performing.
    There are lots of improvements which can and should be done, but not copying the UI of Blender or DS
    In my opinion of course


  • Poser Ambassadors

    I like the flexibility of the current Poser UI.

    Also on dual monitors and each room is used for different tasks, it is easy to drag the different windows around, at will, and between monitors.

    Some evenings, I am creating, loading and reworking morphs.
    Other evenings I concentrate on rigging painting.
    Then next day on texture work and material room refinements.

    Always dragging the different windows around between monitors to suit the task at hand and as Wim, I also use the UI dots to get started.



  • @pleasejustwork said in New UI for Poser 12?:

    Maybe this would be a good time to start a discussion here.
    As a professional graphic artist (41 years and still at it) I pretty much live in Adobe. I also have multiple monitors. It's so nice to be able to spread my pallets out on the second one leaving the good monitor free for the main window. I get the feeling that Poser is aimed towards the casual user on a laptop with it's insistence on 'rooms'. In Daz I can arrange all the pallets as nested tabs, giving me an interface that's pretty much the same no matter what I'm doing. In Poser I have to drag everything over to my second monitor in EVERY ROOM. I also have to do this after every upgrade. I want (demand/beg/plead/threaten/ask nicely)....
    -pallets as nested tabs.

    Do that and those of us with vision issues will simply be unable to use Poser.

    -change that goofy face/hand camera controller to something all grown up. It looks like an orphan from the groovy sixties.

    Really? I don't know.........just find this kind of petty.

    -why are the dynamics controls spread over four (five?) little boxes? Amalgamate them please.
    -fix the bloody library. SR5 (PP11) finally made it work but it still has one basic flaw. In Daz, all items (properties) in a runtime are available while in that runtime. In Poser I have to go to the top and select 'materials' or 'poses' to apply the poses to the item I've just added. With large runtimes it's easy to forget what the item is named and I get lost.

    No you don't. If you take the time to setup your libraries properly, you can have everything associated with an item right there "in the same room/folder." I have everything I buy in one folder in the runtime under the item name, then subfolders for materials,lights, poses, etc. You just have to want to spend the time to set it up YOUR WAY.

    ...or....
    

    Make a 'smart' library that knows what properties (poses, materials, etc) fit on a selected item. There's been a couple of add-ons that have attempted that, but none of them have worked worth stink. I'd love to be able to drop an item of clothing on Vicky Four then right click it (while still in the pose window) and have a list of poses or materials pop up and let me scroll through to pick the one I wanted to apply.

    This is very limiting and I suspect most Poser users would absolutely HATE it. I don't limit the figures I use to items designed for that figure. Heck, Dawn wears all of Vicky's clothes in my libraby, especially dynamic ones.

    -when I select something in the scene I want it to be highlighted in the hierarchy pallet.
    -speaking of the hierarchy pallet, DON'T open items completely unless I select it. Closing the unneeded items is laborious.
    -still speaking of the hierarchy pallet, let me hide the junk that clutters it. Why does it list the item and a 'body'? Aren't they the same thing? There's several properties that just clutter the pallet. It's nice that they're available if I need them but I usually don't. Take a lesson from Daz here.

    I don't know.......the Scene File tab on DAZ reminds me a great deal of Poser's HE. Hmmmmm....

    -The lighting icon/tool thingy needs to be rethought. It works (kinda) but....

    Remember Blender before 2.5? It was horrible. We screamed bloody murder for years for the programmers to puh-leaze make it human-understandable. There was a lot of ego in the way; the programmers feeling that grinding through the damned goofball interface was a right of passage. Under unrelenting pressure they finally changed it....and what happened? Usage exploded! Almost overnight the userbase went stratospheric because people could now actually make sense of it. They get HALF A MILLION DOWNLOADS A MONTH NOW...wow. All because it's not horrible to use.

    ROFL, and I think the Blender UI is STILL horrid and unusable.

    Honestly, all your complaints appear to be from someone who has not set Poser up for the way they use it. I do, I have. And it really only takes a few minutes. As for the library, yes, it means I can't just drop a zip file and let IT decide how badly to mangle my library - I have to hand install each one. But, frankly, anyone who turns their library over to vendor whims is looking for trouble.



  • @Glitterati3D

    For what concerns Poser: I completely agree with you.

    @pleasejustwork
    Furthermore, when the drop mechanism doesn't work, it means that something is between your mouse cursor and your target, it may be a square light or any prop/object that is visible only from one side.



  • @Y-Phil said in New UI for Poser 12?:

    @Glitterati3D

    For what concerns Poser: I completely agree with you.

    Thanks. I will also say that I think the DAZ UI is designed for "hobbyist" users and not professionals who need more flexibility to set the interface to work with their specific needs. Poser is set up to scale to the task at hand - and the ability to change the UI to work for your project.

    A lot of the requests in that initial "list" would severely impact the content creators who need a workable UI. Sure, the hobbyist pose, load, render group (and there's not a thing wrong with being in this group) would find it easier to use. But, content creators would have an awful time with that UI.

    @pleasejustwork
    Furthermore, when the drop mechanism doesn't work, it means that something is between your mouse cursor and your target, it may be a square light or any prop/object that is visible only from one side.

    Excellent point! I never knew this.



  • Hmmmmmm,
    Upon reflection I admit that I may be trying to make Poser look like an Adobe program since that's where I cut my teeth but...
    I don't like having to spend a lot of time re-arranging things to get work done. That was one of my BIG Blender complaints, the darn thing looked different in every mode (or whatever it 's called). I don't care if I'm in object or sculpting or whatever mode, I want the tools and other pallets in the same darn place. This is where I feel that Adobe shines. Whether I'm in PS or AE or Illustrator or Premiere Pro, I can access a tool almost blindfolded since I lay them out the same way (as much as possible). As I became more proficient with say AE, I was able to add more tools giving me more flexibility and power. That's where nested tabs come into play. The tools you need for a particular job are just one quick click away.

     I think you missed my point with the library.  Vicky's wardrobe has a million dresses.  She'll slip one one then leave it to me to pick a pose (material).  I have to navigate out of objects, over to poses, then down to the particular dress.  Because of the number of dresses she has (that woman is seriously high maintenance), I'll often forget which one she's wearing.  In Daz I can see *which* dress since that choice's folder is open higher up.  I'd love to be able to right-click on say, that dress and have a context menu appear with the materials (poses) available for that dress.  It gets worse when a third party makes material/textures but names it differently from the item it goes on; although that's more of a content creator problem.
    

    I HAVE spent time setting it up but hate...absolutely hate having to do it for every room AND every update sets the whole damn UI back to the default. The little UI dots where I stored my rooms are now blank, argh!

      I feel that things have to be made easier for the neophyte since they form the core of your customers.  Are there really enough folks making content to support Poser on their own?   From the little bit I see on sale, I doubt it.    And I may be whining but I've gotten folks to talk about it.  
    

    Just so that folks don't think I'm Poser bashing....
    -cameras that move the way you'd want them to. Despite using it since it was released, I never did get Studio's cameras to work right.
    -real user manuals and good instructional material. I just love Denni's papers on Poser's rotational geometry. You don't get indepth, geeky stuff like that for Studio.
    -a history of openness and hacking. Bagginsbill's willingness to help folks make good shaders for nylons is a perfect example. Everything in Daz comes with a (often hefty) price tag. Knowledge is not free over there.
    -real IK.
    -real dynamics (I just love that).
    -real dynamics. I mention it twice since it's so darned good.....and free.
    -an open source renderer (Cycles) that doesn't require a special video card.
    -support for my 3D mouse that actually works well.
    -Poser started it all. That's gotta be worth something.



  • @pleasejustwork said in New UI for Poser 12?:

     I think you missed my point with the library.  Vicky's wardrobe has a million dresses.  She'll slip one one then leave it to me to pick a pose (material).  I have to navigate out of objects, over to poses, then down to the particular dress.  Because of the number of dresses she has (that woman is seriously high maintenance), I'll often forget which one she's wearing.  In Daz I can see *which* dress since that choice's folder is open higher up.  I'd love to be able to right-click on say, that dress and have a context menu appear with the materials (poses) available for that dress.  It gets worse when a third party makes material/textures but names it differently from the item it goes on; although that's more of a content creator problem.
    

    See, that's the problem........you missed MY point. Entirely.

    My folders look like this:

    0_1478969475065_MYRuntimeSetup.jpg

    I don't run all over my Runtime looking for things that "go with" a product. They are all stored and organized together. Since Poser 8, you can put folders anywhere you want - with the exception of Geometries and Textures unless you want to change the paths in your files. If you choose to do that even those can go wherever you want to put them.

    I HAVE spent time setting it up but hate...absolutely hate having to do it for every room AND every update sets the whole damn UI back to the default. The little UI dots where I stored my rooms are now blank, argh!

    Ummmm, that's true with ANY software. When you upgrade to a major revision, none of your settings are like they were. Even Photoshop.

      I feel that things have to be made easier for the neophyte since they form the core of your customers.  Are there really enough folks making content to support Poser on their own?   From the little bit I see on sale, I doubt it.    And I may be whining but I've gotten folks to talk about it.  
    

    I think you're mistaken that the neophyte is the core of the customer base for Poser. Poser is not DS - it's not free and it's not dependent on the content to drive usage. There's a LOT more to Poser than content. And, frankly, there's plenty of folks making content for Poser.



  • @Glitterati3D
    That is exactly how I set it up now for the last 3 or so Poser versions.

    • Mat poses and Poser material files go in a folder with the object.
    • Potentially portable content, such as hair, has a central repository runtime.

    That runtime has a folder under 'hair' for each hair item, with the texture library files in a sub-folder. See below example with Antonia and Roxie versions of the Short Bob for V3.
    0_1478971220293_Knipsel.JPG

    Ported So I never need to search where a hair item is, or where the colors for it are.

    For clothing I did same bu tthat is more a work in progress. I keep converted items together to keep short connection to the colors. Approach resembles offering in shops: That particular shirt you look for is on that shelf or rack, where you can look for the size and color that you need.

    This way I can find wig and garment for the figure I want to use. If a conversion I make for my project seems good enough to keep for later use I save it there, along with the original.



  • @F_Verbaas said in New UI for Poser 12?:

    @Glitterati3D
    That is exactly how I set it up now for the last 3 or so Poser versions.

    • Mat poses and Poser material files go in a folder with the object.
    • Potentially portable content, such as hair, has a central repository runtime.

    That runtime has a folder under 'hair' for each hair item, with the texture library files in a sub-folder. See below example with Antonia and Roxie versions of the Short Bob for V3.
    0_1478971220293_Knipsel.JPG

    Ported So I never need to search where a hair item is, or where the colors for it are.

    For clothing I did same bu tthat is more a work in progress. I keep converted items together to keep short connection to the colors. Approach resembles offering in shops: That particular shirt you look for is on that shelf or rack, where you can look for the size and color that you need.

    This way I can find wig and garment for the figure I want to use. If a conversion I make for my project seems good enough to keep for later use I save it there, along with the original.

    Yes! I don't think there is much I dislike more than running all over multiple runtimes for a texture to go with something I want to render. If they are installed this way, there's no hunting - the pieces are all right there.



  • I think some UI "upgrades" are in order. As it is, I don't use half the panels that are normally present on the screen..

    BUT, I also have to remember why Poser exists... It was originally intended for exactly as it is named - Professional artists needed a user-friendly application that allowed them to work with various lighting effects on desired human figure poses. If one is a professional visual artist, one has certainly delved into the realm of hunting for pose-packs and human pose photography. Poser was invented to help partially solve that problem so that artists didn't have to rely on clunky wooden pose-models sitting on a table with a goose-neck lamp... :)

    But, Poser has evolved since then. To be honest, I haven't really seen any visual artists using it to provide them with sample material for their sketch/portrait/figure art in any medium other than 3D artists rendering vicky naked in the temple with a sword..

    IMO, as long as the runtime structure is kept and is backwards compatible, SM can do whatever they wish with the program's UI as long as older content is compatible. (Which it should be, even if they have to allow legacy windows, like for Python, installed companion apps, etc.

    Opening up the UI for modding development might be a good idea... There have been "mods" for Poser that changed things like the color-scheme and things like that. Perhaps something like XML or whatever could help, with a "default" UI override for users if they load up a modded UI that was crappy.

    OR, maybe even a way for UI mods to be "installed" and added/removed as desired, accessible through the File or Options menu?

    Personally, I don't have a need for that. I can see how some users might. I do make use of what custom UI options are available at the moment, though, with removed windows, a more customized workspace, resizing, etc.. For myself, that sort of thing is fine. For others, they may want an entirely different experience. But, I've been using Poser for a long time and am familiar with it, so I've got some bias in favor of it.

    PS:: Whenever something is changed, people get angry... It doesn't matter what it is as that only effects how many people get angry. With Poser users.... people lose their friggin minds. :)



  • I like your idea for allowing user mods. I'd kill for tabbed pallets.
    Regarding changes; If you're a Blender user than you probably remember the great 2.5 debacle. The UI underwent a huge change and the developers pretty much had to hold a lot of established users at gunpoint. In the end they rammed it through and the userbase exploded. It went from a niche market to seeing half a million downloads a month.



  • @pleasejustwork said in New UI for Poser 12?:

    I like your idea for allowing user mods. I'd kill for tabbed pallets.
    Regarding changes; If you're a Blender user than you probably remember the great 2.5 debacle. The UI underwent a huge change and the developers pretty much had to hold a lot of established users at gunpoint. In the end they rammed it through and the userbase exploded. It went from a niche market to seeing half a million downloads a month.

    I once gouged out my eyeballs and then hired a group of trained owls to eat my own intestines while I sipped on a nice chianti... rather than use Blender with its old UI. True story. Srsly... :)

    (No fava beans were harmed.)



  • @morkonan said in New UI for Poser 12?:

    @pleasejustwork said in New UI for Poser 12?:

    I like your idea for allowing user mods. I'd kill for tabbed pallets.
    Regarding changes; If you're a Blender user than you probably remember the great 2.5 debacle. The UI underwent a huge change and the developers pretty much had to hold a lot of established users at gunpoint. In the end they rammed it through and the userbase exploded. It went from a niche market to seeing half a million downloads a month.

    I once gouged out my eyeballs and then hired a group of trained owls to eat my own intestines while I sipped on a nice chianti... rather than use Blender with its old UI. True story. Srsly... :)

    (No fava beans were harmed.)

    "Thp-thp-thp-thp-thp."



  • This post is deleted!


  • I can think of several UI changes I would like in Poser. I've never been a big fan of the Kai Krause interface. Didn't like it when Poser took it from Bryce, still don't like it now. Didn't like it in Bryce either, for that matter. Especially that light thing. I have no idea where my light is on that thing. Eight versions since Poser 4 of wondering where the hell my light is located. I first bought Poser because I thought I could use it to block my plays and screenplays. I've used it for everything but because I can never see where my lights and cameras should go.

    Visible cameras and lights so I can block a play, and light a subject, please! And a slider on cameras, so I can more precisely control the rate I zoom or focus.

    EDIT: Oh, and the ability to record a move like a dolly shot, or rack to focus shot.


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