New UI for Poser 12?



  • @Y-Phil said in New UI for Poser 12?:

    @Glitterati3D

    For what concerns Poser: I completely agree with you.

    Thanks. I will also say that I think the DAZ UI is designed for "hobbyist" users and not professionals who need more flexibility to set the interface to work with their specific needs. Poser is set up to scale to the task at hand - and the ability to change the UI to work for your project.

    A lot of the requests in that initial "list" would severely impact the content creators who need a workable UI. Sure, the hobbyist pose, load, render group (and there's not a thing wrong with being in this group) would find it easier to use. But, content creators would have an awful time with that UI.

    @pleasejustwork
    Furthermore, when the drop mechanism doesn't work, it means that something is between your mouse cursor and your target, it may be a square light or any prop/object that is visible only from one side.

    Excellent point! I never knew this.



  • Hmmmmmm,
    Upon reflection I admit that I may be trying to make Poser look like an Adobe program since that's where I cut my teeth but...
    I don't like having to spend a lot of time re-arranging things to get work done. That was one of my BIG Blender complaints, the darn thing looked different in every mode (or whatever it 's called). I don't care if I'm in object or sculpting or whatever mode, I want the tools and other pallets in the same darn place. This is where I feel that Adobe shines. Whether I'm in PS or AE or Illustrator or Premiere Pro, I can access a tool almost blindfolded since I lay them out the same way (as much as possible). As I became more proficient with say AE, I was able to add more tools giving me more flexibility and power. That's where nested tabs come into play. The tools you need for a particular job are just one quick click away.

     I think you missed my point with the library.  Vicky's wardrobe has a million dresses.  She'll slip one one then leave it to me to pick a pose (material).  I have to navigate out of objects, over to poses, then down to the particular dress.  Because of the number of dresses she has (that woman is seriously high maintenance), I'll often forget which one she's wearing.  In Daz I can see *which* dress since that choice's folder is open higher up.  I'd love to be able to right-click on say, that dress and have a context menu appear with the materials (poses) available for that dress.  It gets worse when a third party makes material/textures but names it differently from the item it goes on; although that's more of a content creator problem.
    

    I HAVE spent time setting it up but hate...absolutely hate having to do it for every room AND every update sets the whole damn UI back to the default. The little UI dots where I stored my rooms are now blank, argh!

      I feel that things have to be made easier for the neophyte since they form the core of your customers.  Are there really enough folks making content to support Poser on their own?   From the little bit I see on sale, I doubt it.    And I may be whining but I've gotten folks to talk about it.  
    

    Just so that folks don't think I'm Poser bashing....
    -cameras that move the way you'd want them to. Despite using it since it was released, I never did get Studio's cameras to work right.
    -real user manuals and good instructional material. I just love Denni's papers on Poser's rotational geometry. You don't get indepth, geeky stuff like that for Studio.
    -a history of openness and hacking. Bagginsbill's willingness to help folks make good shaders for nylons is a perfect example. Everything in Daz comes with a (often hefty) price tag. Knowledge is not free over there.
    -real IK.
    -real dynamics (I just love that).
    -real dynamics. I mention it twice since it's so darned good.....and free.
    -an open source renderer (Cycles) that doesn't require a special video card.
    -support for my 3D mouse that actually works well.
    -Poser started it all. That's gotta be worth something.



  • @pleasejustwork said in New UI for Poser 12?:

     I think you missed my point with the library.  Vicky's wardrobe has a million dresses.  She'll slip one one then leave it to me to pick a pose (material).  I have to navigate out of objects, over to poses, then down to the particular dress.  Because of the number of dresses she has (that woman is seriously high maintenance), I'll often forget which one she's wearing.  In Daz I can see *which* dress since that choice's folder is open higher up.  I'd love to be able to right-click on say, that dress and have a context menu appear with the materials (poses) available for that dress.  It gets worse when a third party makes material/textures but names it differently from the item it goes on; although that's more of a content creator problem.
    

    See, that's the problem........you missed MY point. Entirely.

    My folders look like this:

    0_1478969475065_MYRuntimeSetup.jpg

    I don't run all over my Runtime looking for things that "go with" a product. They are all stored and organized together. Since Poser 8, you can put folders anywhere you want - with the exception of Geometries and Textures unless you want to change the paths in your files. If you choose to do that even those can go wherever you want to put them.

    I HAVE spent time setting it up but hate...absolutely hate having to do it for every room AND every update sets the whole damn UI back to the default. The little UI dots where I stored my rooms are now blank, argh!

    Ummmm, that's true with ANY software. When you upgrade to a major revision, none of your settings are like they were. Even Photoshop.

      I feel that things have to be made easier for the neophyte since they form the core of your customers.  Are there really enough folks making content to support Poser on their own?   From the little bit I see on sale, I doubt it.    And I may be whining but I've gotten folks to talk about it.  
    

    I think you're mistaken that the neophyte is the core of the customer base for Poser. Poser is not DS - it's not free and it's not dependent on the content to drive usage. There's a LOT more to Poser than content. And, frankly, there's plenty of folks making content for Poser.



  • @Glitterati3D
    That is exactly how I set it up now for the last 3 or so Poser versions.

    • Mat poses and Poser material files go in a folder with the object.
    • Potentially portable content, such as hair, has a central repository runtime.

    That runtime has a folder under 'hair' for each hair item, with the texture library files in a sub-folder. See below example with Antonia and Roxie versions of the Short Bob for V3.
    0_1478971220293_Knipsel.JPG

    Ported So I never need to search where a hair item is, or where the colors for it are.

    For clothing I did same bu tthat is more a work in progress. I keep converted items together to keep short connection to the colors. Approach resembles offering in shops: That particular shirt you look for is on that shelf or rack, where you can look for the size and color that you need.

    This way I can find wig and garment for the figure I want to use. If a conversion I make for my project seems good enough to keep for later use I save it there, along with the original.



  • @F_Verbaas said in New UI for Poser 12?:

    @Glitterati3D
    That is exactly how I set it up now for the last 3 or so Poser versions.

    • Mat poses and Poser material files go in a folder with the object.
    • Potentially portable content, such as hair, has a central repository runtime.

    That runtime has a folder under 'hair' for each hair item, with the texture library files in a sub-folder. See below example with Antonia and Roxie versions of the Short Bob for V3.
    0_1478971220293_Knipsel.JPG

    Ported So I never need to search where a hair item is, or where the colors for it are.

    For clothing I did same bu tthat is more a work in progress. I keep converted items together to keep short connection to the colors. Approach resembles offering in shops: That particular shirt you look for is on that shelf or rack, where you can look for the size and color that you need.

    This way I can find wig and garment for the figure I want to use. If a conversion I make for my project seems good enough to keep for later use I save it there, along with the original.

    Yes! I don't think there is much I dislike more than running all over multiple runtimes for a texture to go with something I want to render. If they are installed this way, there's no hunting - the pieces are all right there.



  • I think some UI "upgrades" are in order. As it is, I don't use half the panels that are normally present on the screen..

    BUT, I also have to remember why Poser exists... It was originally intended for exactly as it is named - Professional artists needed a user-friendly application that allowed them to work with various lighting effects on desired human figure poses. If one is a professional visual artist, one has certainly delved into the realm of hunting for pose-packs and human pose photography. Poser was invented to help partially solve that problem so that artists didn't have to rely on clunky wooden pose-models sitting on a table with a goose-neck lamp... :)

    But, Poser has evolved since then. To be honest, I haven't really seen any visual artists using it to provide them with sample material for their sketch/portrait/figure art in any medium other than 3D artists rendering vicky naked in the temple with a sword..

    IMO, as long as the runtime structure is kept and is backwards compatible, SM can do whatever they wish with the program's UI as long as older content is compatible. (Which it should be, even if they have to allow legacy windows, like for Python, installed companion apps, etc.

    Opening up the UI for modding development might be a good idea... There have been "mods" for Poser that changed things like the color-scheme and things like that. Perhaps something like XML or whatever could help, with a "default" UI override for users if they load up a modded UI that was crappy.

    OR, maybe even a way for UI mods to be "installed" and added/removed as desired, accessible through the File or Options menu?

    Personally, I don't have a need for that. I can see how some users might. I do make use of what custom UI options are available at the moment, though, with removed windows, a more customized workspace, resizing, etc.. For myself, that sort of thing is fine. For others, they may want an entirely different experience. But, I've been using Poser for a long time and am familiar with it, so I've got some bias in favor of it.

    PS:: Whenever something is changed, people get angry... It doesn't matter what it is as that only effects how many people get angry. With Poser users.... people lose their friggin minds. :)



  • I like your idea for allowing user mods. I'd kill for tabbed pallets.
    Regarding changes; If you're a Blender user than you probably remember the great 2.5 debacle. The UI underwent a huge change and the developers pretty much had to hold a lot of established users at gunpoint. In the end they rammed it through and the userbase exploded. It went from a niche market to seeing half a million downloads a month.



  • @pleasejustwork said in New UI for Poser 12?:

    I like your idea for allowing user mods. I'd kill for tabbed pallets.
    Regarding changes; If you're a Blender user than you probably remember the great 2.5 debacle. The UI underwent a huge change and the developers pretty much had to hold a lot of established users at gunpoint. In the end they rammed it through and the userbase exploded. It went from a niche market to seeing half a million downloads a month.

    I once gouged out my eyeballs and then hired a group of trained owls to eat my own intestines while I sipped on a nice chianti... rather than use Blender with its old UI. True story. Srsly... :)

    (No fava beans were harmed.)



  • @morkonan said in New UI for Poser 12?:

    @pleasejustwork said in New UI for Poser 12?:

    I like your idea for allowing user mods. I'd kill for tabbed pallets.
    Regarding changes; If you're a Blender user than you probably remember the great 2.5 debacle. The UI underwent a huge change and the developers pretty much had to hold a lot of established users at gunpoint. In the end they rammed it through and the userbase exploded. It went from a niche market to seeing half a million downloads a month.

    I once gouged out my eyeballs and then hired a group of trained owls to eat my own intestines while I sipped on a nice chianti... rather than use Blender with its old UI. True story. Srsly... :)

    (No fava beans were harmed.)

    "Thp-thp-thp-thp-thp."



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  • I can think of several UI changes I would like in Poser. I've never been a big fan of the Kai Krause interface. Didn't like it when Poser took it from Bryce, still don't like it now. Didn't like it in Bryce either, for that matter. Especially that light thing. I have no idea where my light is on that thing. Eight versions since Poser 4 of wondering where the hell my light is located. I first bought Poser because I thought I could use it to block my plays and screenplays. I've used it for everything but because I can never see where my lights and cameras should go.

    Visible cameras and lights so I can block a play, and light a subject, please! And a slider on cameras, so I can more precisely control the rate I zoom or focus.

    EDIT: Oh, and the ability to record a move like a dolly shot, or rack to focus shot.



  • @eclark1849 one thing I like about DS is use of sliders instead of dials. I guess in some circumstances a dial makes more sense if it needs infinite turning but the sliders look and "feel" nicer.



  • @ghostship I also know a room I'd like to suggest for Poser... an "edit room". Where you can edit together and rearrange short segments of animation to make a longer scene. Of course, that would also mean giving Poser the ability to "record" short clips so you can edit them together.



  • @ghostship said in New UI for Poser 12?:

    @eclark1849 one thing I like about DS is use of sliders instead of dials. I guess in some circumstances a dial makes more sense if it needs infinite turning but the sliders look and "feel" nicer.

    One thing that I love in photoshop and that I would like in poser: click on a value and use the mouse's wheel to change the value.

    @eclark1849 I'm afraid that a slider would require a wider parameters window



  • @Y-Phil Doesn't have to be that wide. Depends on the increments. Poser's original UI used sliders.



  • I find Cameras very difficult to see in a scene, even when you flag them as "visible". I still occasionally set a render to process over the network, and find it completely black the next day. Trying to find the camera to see which wall it is located behind seems very difficult to me. I will switch to another camera, flag the target camera as visible, and then turn the active camera to find it. Trying to find it is like finding a needle in a hay stack.



  • @mr_phoenyxx It is frustrating. Making a camera visible only for it to become invisible when I go back to another view.



  • My hierarchy window is always opened (poser is dispersed on 2 screens), so that clicking on the eye to the left of a camera immediately displays it.
    Furthermore, once the cam is selected, I display it in "Cartoon" mode (menu Display > Object Style > Cartoon)



  • @Y-Phil but does it stay displayed? I can't check right now.



  • I'll bet we could get Joseph from Netherworks to make some of the suggested improvements. His recent replacement for the hierarchy pallet is just brilliant.
    How about it Joe?....the goofy lighting widget/thing-a-ma-bob needs to be replaced NOW.