Morphing Props tutorial?



  • Hi there, i have used morphing props since ages, but i have no clue how to make them.
    Is there a tutorial on this topic?
    I googled it but what i found was not very good.
    Especially when it comes to importing of the prop into poser.
    I tryed it on my own, but the resultes are less then shit.
    Prop is moving, it did not stay in shape and becomes bigger or smaller.
    Do i miss something?
    Any help would be welcome.
    And yes, i know this is a beginner problem.
    Forgive me, i am old as a rock.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @marco
    Hi, you can go to my YouTube channel and visit the 11 video's there.
    Video 1 gives the info about how to create morphs for figures using Blender, but the same procedure can be used on props and using other 3D apps.



  • @vilters
    Hello Tony, i watched your videos a while ago and they are very good.
    I will watch them again now, to search for the information i need.
    To clear things a little up, i created a modern Spotlight on a stand in C4D.
    I could have done it in Blender too, i use both software solutions.
    The Spotlight and Stand are three separat objects, one for the light, one for the holder for the light and the third one is the feed of the stand.
    The plan was to build this thing to be able to swing the spotlight in the holder and rotate it with the holder.
    It should also have an up and down movement with the stand.
    If i remember correctly, i have to parent the spotlight to the holder and the holder to the stand, so the three pieces can be moved at once by moving the stand.
    The troubling part is what happend when i try to make this thing morph.
    If the spotlight is dailed downwarts, the spot shrinks in hight and after 90° the whole spot becomes a balloon.
    I did not made it to the up and down part.
    Is there a major flaw in my workflow that pops into your eyes?
    I will now continue to watch your Videos, maybe i find what i am lookig for.
    Thanks and see you later.



  • After watching Tonys videos, i started poser and c4d.
    In a moment of clearness, i checkt some properties in both programs and guess what?
    Poser units where set to feet, c4d operates with centimeters.
    I set both parameter to millimeter and boom,
    the wierd props work like a dream.
    After doing this with simple cubes, i will start modeling my spotlight again from scratch and maybe i will finally have my first working morphing prop.
    Thanks Tony


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Very happy that you got it working.
    Keep up the good spirits.
    Best regards, Tony



  • @marco said in Morphing Props tutorial?:

    Hi there, i have used morphing props since ages, but i have no clue how to make them.
    Is there a tutorial on this topic?
    I googled it but what i found was not very good.
    Especially when it comes to importing of the prop into poser.
    I tryed it on my own, but the resultes are less then shit.
    Prop is moving, it did not stay in shape and becomes bigger or smaller.
    Do i miss something?

    It sounds like you've found a solution, but I thought I'd share these two tips anyway, for other viewers.

    (1) After you duplicate the mesh in your modeling app in order to morph it, don't move, rotate, or scale it while in object mode. You can move, rotate, and scale faces, edges, or points, but not the whole object. It needs to have the same global coordinates as the original mesh.

    (2) When you import the base mesh into Poser, DO NOT check "centered" or "place on floor," as that will change the global coordinates for the base mesh. Then, when you load the morph targets (which still have the original coordinates), you may find the your morph moves the mesh as well as morphing it.

    For what it's worth, my modeling app (Cheetah3D for Mac) doesn't specify what its native units are (presumably any metric system), and once I figured out the two issues above, I haven't had any problems creating morph targets for props, regardless of whether I had Poser's units set to PNU, feet, or centimeters.

    It's also worth pointing out that I always import/export OBJs at 100% scale, from any program I use, so I don't have to remember which object is at which scale and for what app. I did some experiments to figure out how Poser's centimeters correspond to Cheetah's native units, so now I model everything in Cheetah in the same size I want it to be in Poser. Thankfully Cheetah works pretty well on meshes that small!



  • @perpetualrevision, thank you for sharing your experience.
    I will keep your advise in mind.
    What makes me wonder, did you figured it out on your own?
    I mean, i am searching for this topic for quite some time, but as far as i can tell, its not in the poser documentation, there is no youtube video, talking about how to make morphing props...not that i can find them.
    I think, this topic is worthy of making a Step by Step Tutorial for, because i would assume, i am not the only one without a clue about it, right?


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @marco
    Hi,
    Name a prop (that comes with Poser), and I will make a video on how to create morphs for it.
    Or if you have a prop obj (that you can share without violating copyright), feel free to send it over, and I will use that one to make the morph-props video.
    tony.vilters@telenet.be

    Best regards, Tony



  • @marco from my perspective, the many vendors developers of Poser have never professed to be content creators (apart from what content was distributed with Poser) or that Poser was a tool for content creation. They've left that entirely up to third party products and experience. Yes, they've addressed communication with external applications to some extent (import and export support for numerous industry standard file formats), but have maintained their focus on Poser as an extensible figure manipulation and rendering tool.

    The fact that they've maintained that focus and avoided bolting on integrated image or mesh editors can be argued for and against. Would adding functionality that directly competes with not only high end commercial packages, but free, heavily-supported, open-source products, earn them any more sales revenue, even from rusted-on adherents like myself, who have had to make do with external applications to fill the gaps that Poser has left in it's vertex to rendered pixel pipeline?

    So, if SMS and previous vendors of Poser aren't writing tutorials for getting content into Poser, who is? The users! @vilters , @Biscuits ,@bagginsbill and many, many others are constantly contributing to the knowledge base. As a community, we try to pick up the slack (perhaps a harsh word, but clichés have their uses) the developers leave in efforts to concentrate and distill the distributed knowledge and present it for newcomers to absorb. Perhaps you remember, or can at least imagine the horror and lack of possibility for any appropriate response to the closing of the RDNA forums, destroying the recorded history of Poser knowledge hard-won and generously shared for all. [All deserved epithets withheld to avoid perpetuating ill-feeling]

    [Just noticed I've cross-posted with Tony, so it's doubly appropriate that he was mentioned in dispatches ;-)]

    You are in the right place to ask for help with Poser :-) Ask away :-)



  • @vilters, thank you very much for your generous offer!
    I whould love to see that happend.
    You know what? I am going to create a rather simple prop this weekend and send it to you right away.
    This is exiting!



  • @anomalaus, i share your perspective on what Poser developers have as a main goal.
    But sadly, that is, at least in my opinion, one of our biggest problems as poser user.
    Since Daz 3D has make its move with Daz Studio, cutting Poser from using the new figures and accessories, whe are pretty much left behind with an 10 year old V4 and content, that comes with poser.
    I wanted to use the figures out of the poser content, but they don't work like i want them to work. The morphs are unpredictable, to say the least.
    Maybe there is a way to make them work, but i don't even understand how morphing props are made, let alone fixing bones and weight maps on figures. That is black magic to me ;)
    The way out of the Content problem is, in my opinion, to create a community for poser user, simillar to what the Blender community has done.
    A good start in the right direction was what Erogenesis has contribute to poser.
    I have put my hands on his new figures as soon as they where in reach.
    And they are working fine, no doubt about it.
    Now it's time to make clothing and all that stuff as soon and as much as possible.
    I have noticed a crowing number of items for EVO to purchase and for free on Renderosity and Renderotica.
    That is amazing.
    I do remember RDNA as a great source for content and tutorials.
    It was down after Daz 3d purchased it, if i remember correctly.
    That happend right in that time i was coming back to 3d Art from a time out phase.
    But i did not realized how deep the impact was to the community.
    I joined in some of poser related forums quite late, i am in this forum for a month, i guess.
    That is in part a personal thing, i am not a very sozial creature, spending most of my time on forums.
    But you may also have noticed that english is not my native language and so it is difficult for me to have a decent conversation.
    I need too much time to look up gramma and spelling, using google translator, to avoid bigger mistakes and try to make sence.
    This is another reason why i cannot thank you folks enough for being patient and explaining things to me you probably have explaint a hundred times befor.



  • @marco said in Morphing Props tutorial?:

    @vilters, thank you very much for your generous offer!
    I whould love to see that happend.
    You know what? I am going to create a rather simple prop this weekend and send it to you right away.
    This is exiting!

    I mean "exciting"! Sorry!



  • @marco welcome!

    We could all do with a healthy dose of patience (except in relation to Smith Micro fixing bugs and releasing new versions of Poser ;-) ) on these forums. I'm sure many arguments and conflicts are due to misunderstandings and overreactions to folks' use of non-native language. Many of us, (I have no doubt) have parsed Japanese CG forums with Google Translate tab at the ready, but never get to the point of posting, for fear of misunderstanding in both directions and any measure of xenophobia (which applies both ways) or ridicule in the responses engendered.

    But we're not here for culture, except Poser and creative 3D CGI, and the language of the forum's creators and owners (apart from appalling bouts of non-roman-character spam) is the best way to be understood and get help. You're doing absolutely fine, in that regard :-) If my turn of phrase appears overly florid, I ask that you forgive, and I will try to use simpler terms, if that helps. Most of my engineering, technical and software friends actually failed English in High School, because they didn't need the marks.



  • @marco said in Morphing Props tutorial?:

    What makes me wonder, did you figured it out on your own?
    I mean, i am searching for this topic for quite some time, but as far as i can tell, its not in the poser documentation, there is no youtube video, talking about how to make morphing props...not that i can find them.
    I think, this topic is worthy of making a Step by Step Tutorial for, because i would assume, i am not the only one without a clue about it, right?

    Here's how I've figured out most of what I know about Poser:

    • by saving and reading all the freebie tutorials I could find (I prefer readable over watchable)
    • purchasing a few readable tutorials that filled in blanks left by free resources
    • by re-reading portions of the Poser manual on a regular basis (I swear it comes up with new stuff each time! :-)
    • by trying various Google search criteria until I find forum discussions relevant to whatever I was working on

    I do #4 the most, by far, and I keep extensive notes, screenshots, and "clippings" in a Mac app called Notebooks. So I have, for example, a note on MAKING MORPH TARGETS, which I use to gather everything I've ever learned on the topic.

    A few years ago I retired from teaching university writing (which involved making a ton of tutorials I posted on DigitalWriting101.net), and after 4+ years of full-immersion in 3D modeling and Poser, I'm almost ready to start making tutorials on those subjects -- including one on making morph targets for props. That's probably the best way I can "give back" to a community I've learned so much from (while satisfying whatever teaching urges still remain!) But I need to finish up some freebie projects first.

    However, one of those freebie sets includes some morphing props, like a sugar box that falls over and has sugar spilling out and a condensed milk can that falls over and has milk spilling out. So maybe as I'm finishing those up, I can put together a basic how-to.

    BTW, there's a Multi Morphing Prop Tutorial by Fugazi1968 on Renderosity that you might find helpful. I had already figured out most of what that tutorial covers by the time I purchased it (in a rare sale), so I don't recall if he covers the two tips I gave you above, but it might be worth checking out regardless. Another one I picked up a few good tips from is Modelling for Poser by RubiconDigital.



  • @perpetualrevision Thank you so much for answering and all the tips and hints to other sources.
    I will check them out one by one.
    To keep the gained knowledge in written form is probably a good idea, i will make it a habit.
    I already copy and paste this whole conversation into a word.doc.
    interresting how differend learning works, i have made the experience that i prefer watchables because i learn better by following along with my eyes. Its a cognitive prozess called mimicking.
    I the next step i can read something related to the problem and use the experience i gained during the viewing, to solve the puzzle.
    Ok, it is 3.00 in the morning, i just finished the model for tony and i am pretty much done.
    Luckly, today is sunday, no need to get up early.
    See you folks later.



  • @marco

    Since you are using Cinema 4D, you might want to look into Riptide (which is free), or Riptide Pro (which has a lot more muscle and allows you to bulk load stuff).

    It's available on skinprops.com ... here's a comparison of the features here:

    https://skinprops.com/riptidepro.php

    The nice thing about Riptide is it allows you to import and export in Poser scale and respects the grouping and materials in your model. I've been using Riptide Pro for years and can't live without it.



  • @deecey thank you very much.
    I was digging for water, now i am drowning.
    Now i need a few days to seak out all the infos i recived.
    Thanks to all commentors.