Why Are Poser Users Not Supporting Poser Merchants?

  • @glitterati3d Traci if you keep sugarcoating your answers like this we'll never get to the truth. :)

  • @redphantom Actually, I believe that both you and Karina have touched on parts of the whole truth that I do recognize. Those of us who were here back in the beginning are getting on up there in age. And while we still love Poser, there are other realities of life we also have to face. For instance, some of the money I would have been able to once buy some of the content I use in this hobby, now goes towards medicines and doctor appointments.

    And as Karina points out, Poser isn't exactly attracting new users by the droves.

  • All of the answers offered so far are valid, of course. Poser vendors are caught in a trap: prices have to be high because they don't sell a lot of product, and they don't sell a lot of product because prices are high.

    I doubt DAZ's big sales are loss leaders. I suspect they're slightly profitable, and they're done to excite customers. I do wish other Poser sites would experiment with big sales that provided some profit for vendors. It's the only way to get me to make an impulse buy these days.

  • @willshetterly The thing is Will, by the time all is said and done with these mega sales, a vendor is lucky to net $0.75 on a product. At that rate, we might as well just cut out the brokerage and give the stuff away.

    If the value to the customer of my work is so cheap, then I will simply quit offering it at all.

    Vendors make massive investment in the tools to create products - Poser, ZBrush, Photoshop are essentials. Then, there's merchant resources for textures, etc. If they can only sell at less than $1.00 net profit, it's not worth creating the products at all. So, if you're looking for mega sales, and it's the only incentive to purchase, then all the Negative Nellies are right - Poser is finished.

  • @glitterati3d I completely sympathize. But people won’t buy what they don’t feel they can afford, no matter how fair the seller thinks the price is. It’s a Catch-22.

  • I also sympathise, but isn't it better to get 0.75usd from a sale than 0.00usd from a no-sale? Before I retired at the end of last year I was spending 3-400ukp (375-500usd) a month on poser content, I've now reduced that to about 150ukp a month. I'm not going to apologise for spending that money as wisely as I could.
    Will I continue spending that amount in the future? Not unless vendors start creating and selling things I want, such as conforming sci-fi,/fantasy/historical/steampunk clothing for the latest poser figures. Maybe this sort of content won't sell enough to be worthwhile for vendors. In that case I'll just carryon using what I have for older figures.
    I can't support vendors if they don't support my needs.

  • @j-naylor73 Absolutely not. Not for me. That you consider my skills valued at 0.75 is an insult.

  • @willshetterly No, it's not a Catch 22. Perhaps at one time it was, but you are so short of Poser vendors at this point it's not even a Catch.000001

    When all the vendors are run off, you'll be left with nothing but low quality freebies.

  • I don't know. I buy from Poser vendors. Now and again, I do need just the perfect thing right now, and I'll pay whatever price I have to. But I buy vitamins when they're on sale, so why wouldn't I buy Poser things I don't really need that way, too? I outright enjoy the activity of converting clothing for figures, mostly Evo and Pauline, who have no vendor support for conforming clothing. I do buy some dynamic clothing for those figures and rig it. And I joyfully pillage DAZ vendors' work for G3 and G8 when good stuff is on sale for a few bucks and convert it. I react to market forces, I don't shape them.

  • @glitterati3d said in Why Are Poser Users Not Supporting Poser Merchants?:

    @j-naylor73 Absolutely not. Not for me. That you consider my skills valued at 0.75 is an insult.

    I don't consider it an insult at all. I consider the market to be a hobbyist market with hobbyist prices. If I honestly thought I could charge and get professional prices I wouldn't be trying to sell anything here anyway. Turbosquid would probably be as close as I'd get.

  • @eclark1849 I don't know about "Stuck" but V4 meets all my needs as a hobbyist. Even though I have a huge runtime library already I still buy things for V4 primarily from Rendo and DAZ, even bought one today from DAZ" granted I'm at point where I don't actually need more items so I just add things I like to my wishlist and wait for them to be on sale. None of the Poser characters from Alyson to Pauline did I find in anyway useful..IMHO.

  • There is no single answer.

    As a customer, I feel the biggest issue is that most Poser vendors have absolutely no understanding of basic economics and marketing.

    For me, I am still spending money ($100 - $200 a month) - Daz got a lot of that due to their Annual Platinum Club sale. If a Poser vendor at 'Rosity wants a shot at that cash, they need to make something that hasn't been done to death. And that is the key - there are literally 1,000s of V4 characters (95+% early 20's Caucasians), 100's of lingerie and hookerware outfits, and such. With those niches saturated, vendors have three choices if they want to continue to make content -

    1. Accept less sales in a saturated market.
    2. Convert legacy content to newer figures. - I'd rather pay for a vendor converted V4 outfit for Dawn/Pauline/PE than work the fitting room (time is money) - but, hey, it is the vendors not converting their content the way the Daz vendors do every time there is a series of g figures released. Is that the customer's fault or the vendors?
    3. Make content in a less saturated niche. It may not be what you like, but what you like is less important than what your customers like.

    I would also point out that a number of vendors told customers over the years that if they didn't like what vendors made, they should learn to make their own content. Which, apparently a lot of us did.

    Please note - I am not addressing the whole I only make what I am personally interested in vendors. Those folks are not professionals; they are amateurs monetizing their hobby. Nothing wrong with that, but remember what adjective is most used to describe artists (starving).

    AFA Negativity on 'Rosity Forums. That is what happens when the 'Rosity forum moderators don't do their jobs and let the DAZ trolls run wild. Every Is Poser dying or New figure for Poser thread is populated by folks that either use DS or other products - Cinema3D in the case of Wolf359.

    What is worse is that folks like Wolf359 will NEVER buy ANY product from 'Rosity, (he as stated repeatedly that he would rather spend 3 or 4 hours making an outfit rather than buying one.), but the moderators will certainly let him poison the well.

    These are people that have at least an emotional investment in competing products, or in the case of folks like Male3dia, a direct financial investment as a DS exclusive vendor at Daz - folks that only use DS products that never spend time in the DS forums, just the Poser forums spreading FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt). If I was a Poser vendor, I would be at least a little concerned about that.

    That is where the negativity comes from. The way to make that stop is to bring down the banhammer, but they won't; because reasons. And for those of you that slept through civics class in Jr. High, the 1st Amendment is about governments stifling speech. There are no "free speech" rights on a private forum.

  • @kalypso said in Why Are Poser Users Not Supporting Poser Merchants?:

    Most of the Poser vendors that I've supported in the past 19 years are now working exclusively with DAZ Studio so that's my reason. I can't just buy something because it works in Poser, I have to want it and/or need it as well. Since this is just a hobby for me if there's nothing out there for Poser that I like then I just don't bother with Poser, I play WoW and now that Fallout 76 is out I'm getting a new hobby :)

    Pretty much the same story for me - most of my favourite vendors are now only working with D|S, and I have to admit that with the dramas of trying to create Genesis 2 cr2's for use in Mimic, I found it was easier for me to load up the 32 bit version of D|S and use lipsync,, then open the saved file in D|S 64 bit and render.
    Why do I choose to use Genesis 2 when there are plenty of Poser figures?

    • My favourite vendors plus the fact that the outfit I needed for the video was available for Genesis 2 ready made.

  • I only buy things when I need them... and when your library is bursting at the seems from years of collecting... you find you don't need new items too often these days.

  • @glitterati3d The economy's gains mostly go to the rich. The rest of us have to get by as best we can. You feel trapped by what customers can pay. We feel trapped by what we can pay too.

    It would be interesting for a vendor to try the Patreon route. Most of the money goes to the creator that way.

  • It's not that I don't support vendors, it's that I can't afford to support vendors.

    Those super duper sales are the only way I can usually justify spending money on Poser content now. Am I sad that I can't buy things out right when I see them, of course, but currently my financial responsibilities don't include hobbies like Poser.

    @Glitterati3D It's not valuing the work at .75 cents, that's just market prices, that product could be the most valuable content they've ever owned. Maybe .75 cents is all they could afford? The price someone pays for something is not the entire story.

  • @eclark1849

    I read most of the reponses in this thread with interest, even upvoting some of them in agreement. For me, I still do buy something I feel is useful for my type of scene project. Honestly, I don't see many items which fit my own vision, so yes, I have had to model my own content, and develop my own shaders for them. To be very honest, I don't often see my kind of Must-Buy-Now items, sale or not on sale, in any of the established online brokerages, either for Poser or for Daz Studio. My bank account certainly informs me I have spent some coin, though.

  • Poser Ambassadors


    You are welcome to join my Patreon family!
    For only a buck a month (or more) you not only support me but you get surprise content every month, which will not be available anywhere else...

  • @johndoe641 said in Why Are Poser Users Not Supporting Poser Merchants?:

    @Glitterati3D It's not valuing the work at .75 cents, that's just market prices, that product could be the most valuable content they've ever owned. Maybe .75 cents is all they could afford? The price someone pays for something is not the entire story.

    Oh, dear, JohnDoe, but it IS the entire story for the vendor.

    After months of development, making massive investment to put the product on the market, enduring insult after insult, the ultimate insult is a customer whose only motivation to buy is how badly they can screw you.

    I was a lucky vendor, didn't rely on my sales to pay the bills and eat. Vendor funds were my "3D mad money," but I signed on because I enjoyed creating products. And, quite frankly, customer behavior took every bit of joy right out of the process.

    It's why I am no longer a vendor.

    Now, if customers think that DAZ will continue these sales, and ridiculous pricing structures when you folks make them the only game in town, think again.

  • @biscuits It looks like your patreon focuses on Daz, which is completely understandable, but I’m only interested in things that easily import into Poser. I’m not criticizing your choice here. Vendors have to specialize. Good luck with the experiment!