Why Are Poser Users Not Supporting Poser Merchants?



  • Somewhere in the depth of sharecg, there is my DRUUNA character for Miki 2. Ten years ago ??? https://sharecg.com/v/26511/browse/11/Poser/DRUUNA-for-Miki2-updated



  • @fverbaas That's fine. I made a few bucks off my store at first, but I honestly doubt I'd make any more from Rendo.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @eclark1849 said in Why Are Poser Users Not Supporting Poser Merchants?:

    I think with someone like Stonemason, who, if I can recall what he said about why he was abandoning Poser, I think it was a matter of supporting so many render engines. I can't say I fault him for that. When I was doing Dawn's House, the idea of having to learn 3Delight, and Iray scared the crap out of me.

    There are 2 sides to that assertion. Supporting Poser and DS nowadays means creating 4 sets of materials, not to mention how incompatible DS has become from Poser these days. There is no "DS conversion" from a Poser content. You have to rig it again, and that's 95% of the development time.

    From a consumer perspective, they talk a lot about Poser or DS "conversions", when in reality there is no such thing (for bullet-proof commercial products). If the product has rigging, it is incompatible between the 2 programs, UNLESS you are using old-school V4/M4 figures. Not to mention these Millennium 4 figure have no pesky JCMs to worry about, so the rigging itself is greatly simplified when compared to modern weight mapped figures. Maybe that's one reason why content creators are still clinging to these old legacy figures. It's easier to create contents for them, and their rigging works natively in Poser and DS.

    I think a major reason why people still use V4 is simply because they have spent too much money building her runtime, so why change? As opposed to how DAZ handles Genesis, releasing a new one every 2 years, V4 was alone in the market for WAY longer than that, allowing people to build a large runtime just for her. This also means vendors got plenty of time to create contents for her, since there were no other figures in the horizon for years.

    Well, those days are gone, and now there is a new Genesis every 2 years. Not to mention Genesis has changed file formats and rigging systems 3 times since DS 4.0, making her a potentially scary prospect for vendors used to creating for V4. There is also the fact that JCMs are back with Genesis, which is a bummer. You don't have to deal with that if you stick to V4, so there goes another reason.

    Don't get me wrong, I haven't created anything for V4 in years, but I understand if others would prefer to stick to her. There is a market, and it's easier to handle than it is with Genesis.

    As for my own products, I have tried to make a variety of contents, but that didn't help increasing sales. The most common comment I get is that they wanted something more "normal", which to me would mean making "more of the same", which I refuse to do. When I make sci-fi or fantasy outfits, people complain they don't use those. When I make toon or stylized characters, they say they wanted normal people. But hey, 95% of existing characters and clothing are of the "normal" kind, so why would I make more of the same?

    The argument that vendors have to cater for what people want is totally bogus. No 2 people want the same thing, and there is no way to please everybody all the time. That is just not possible. Even in products where I have openly asked the community what they wanted, that didn't help selling the product. Everybody wants different things, even when relating to similar things. The idea may make sense in paper, but it doesn't work in the real world.

    I could keep going on here, but this is long enough as it is. I just wanted to show a few reasons why consumers and vendors prefer to stick to grandma V4, why diversifying the product line is by no means a guarantee of better returns, and why trying to make "what people want" is an illusive hope.



  • @ken1171 Actually, Ken, you're incorrect - V4 base figure has 6 JCM/JSM morphs and Morphs++ add more.



  • @anomalaus said in Why Are Poser Users Not Supporting Poser Merchants?:

    This article "The shallowness of google translate", recently came to my attention when trying to understand a forum posting elsewhere, and absolutely shocked my preconception that machine translation WAS making progress towards understanding human language for translation. It's apparently NOT, or at least not the version ordinary net surfers get to use for free!

    Well, it is getting better, but good translation is a monumental task.

    I do some translation now and then. I got into the software end back in the era of SNES, and had a small business that did console game translation and some testing (if you remember the TurboGraphix, a lot of games on that platform, plus others). I also used a bit of early 'fuzzy logic' machine translation in the mid 90s (a generation of the HP Deskjet / Deskwriter printers had some of my work). Plus, a few software applications you may have used also. Actually, my kid did the last update of Shade 14 from when Mirye Software was republishing it.

    Over the last 20 years (yes, machine translation has been going on longer than that), it has gotten a lot better. It got much better especially with Western European languages. For Japanese, it went from almost entirely useless to often comprehensible.

    Usually when something is translated, a translator does the work, and then you have 'eyeballers' that check for basic mistakes and then some higher level editor that makes the translation appealing in the target language. Sometimes 'eyeballer' and editor are the same person.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @glitterati3d said in Why Are Poser Users Not Supporting Poser Merchants?:

    @ken1171 Actually, Ken, you're incorrect - V4 base figure has 6 JCM/JSM morphs and Morphs++ add more.

    V4 and all Mil4 figures have JCMs, but they use magnets instead of morphs. This is why we need to "magnetize" the clothing, instead of transferring JCMs. In other words, Mil4 figures use dynamic JCMs that work in a similar way as their legacy rigging, and that's why they work natively in both Poser and DS. The magnets are invisible and most people have never seen them, but trust me, they are there. :)



  • 0_1544133064600_Magnets Comparison.jpg
    (The magnets that remain in SASHA were necessary to make the "Breast Movement" more compatible with legacy content for standard DAZ V4)

    And SASHA only needs something like FOURTEEN bi-lateral JCMs alltogether.

    Questions? ;)

    K


  • Poser Ambassadors

    We left the Breast magnets in Poser Place V4~WM for the same reason.

    Much of the breast morphing is actually the magnets doing it. So to make it worlds more user friendly we left them in.



  • @ken1171 said in Why Are Poser Users Not Supporting Poser Merchants?:

    @glitterati3d said in Why Are Poser Users Not Supporting Poser Merchants?:

    @ken1171 Actually, Ken, you're incorrect - V4 base figure has 6 JCM/JSM morphs and Morphs++ add more.

    V4 and all Mil4 figures have JCMs, but they use magnets instead of morphs.

    The very reason I have to turn off Show deformers in the Hierarchy Editor every time I load V4 into a scene.



  • With magnets now being weight mapped, the number of them could be reduced. That would mean the number can be reduced. Maybe an alternative for JCM's in clothing? Magnets work on the xyz position of a vertex, not dependent on being number n in some geometry.



  • Thought I'd ask in this thread. Is anyone still interested in buying Poses for any of the older Poser figures, such as, Kelvin and James, or Olivia and Sydney? The poses would basically be for using the figures in crowd and party situations. When you need background figures.



  • @eclark1849 said in Why Are Poser Users Not Supporting Poser Merchants?:

    Thought I'd ask in this thread. Is anyone still interested in buying Poses for any of the older Poser figures, such as, Kelvin and James, or Olivia and Sydney? The poses would basically be for using the figures in crowd and party situations. When you need background figures.

    I am interested in Olivia/Sydney poses.



  • I'm interested in seeing new content for Project Evolution, poses, clothing and whathaveyou. Haven't been seeing much stuff for her - so I donno.



  • @willdial Any particular type of situation? Such as party, bar, office, intimate, etc.?



  • @ladonna said in Why Are Poser Users Not Supporting Poser Merchants?:

    Aand some sadly really just want to click and render.

    I find it odd that a Poser Ambassador would consider this unfortunate. The web is full of communities sharing pictures they've created. In comparison, the number of people making figures, clothing items, props, scenes etc. is small. For many, the software is the tool, the picture the purpose of them investing time and money into the platform of choice.

    All the time I spent trying to better understand the features of Poser was because I wasn't getting the results I wanted from 'clicking' objects, items, lights, poses and materials. That wasn't fun, it is not what I'm interested in, but something I tolerate as a necessary part to the process. I'll grab any shortcut I can get; whether that's pose packs or material collections. I don't mind tweaking things, but I don't get excited about wrestling with half a dozen nodes to get reflections right. I do like seeing a scene come together as a final render.

    I hope the people working on Poser updates consider the perspective of basic users. Because how easy is it really to load a HDRi skydome into Poser? How well do Firefly materials really translate to Superfly? When the material room flags certain connections as faulty, what does that really tell people; how does it help them solve it? Why does Poser still rely on third-party plug-ins like EZSkin to sort out skin-materials? Is it really too much to ask to load the program up with dozens of basic material-settings for everything from wood to glass to concrete to rubber to cloth into which users can plug texture maps? Basic stuff to give people something to work with.

    People who want to 'click and render' are not failed developers, or unable to understand the intricacies of the software - they simply have different interests.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @adosity Why you find this odd? You see, as Ambassador I am there for to help user to get the best out of his art .This means ,teaching, explain, suggest etc.. The problem here is, that some Poser user even after so many year did not know how to use the Cloth room . They prefer outfits which have already many mov. morphs that they just have to spin 1 dial.
    Other suggest vendors to make dynamic outfits whit a script and Poses , I click solution. Load figure ,dynamic outfit and pose and run the script.
    This I find pretty sad.A software and the community can only grow when they are enough people to move forward.When user are innovative by their own. When they dare to try out new stuff. Explore. But when I read that the cloth room is still a mystery and many even don't want to bother...this is sad.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @jartz said in Why Are Poser Users Not Supporting Poser Merchants?:

    I'm interested in seeing new content for Project Evolution, poses, clothing and whathaveyou. Haven't been seeing much stuff for her - so I donno.

    Just finished a character for PE, took a long time to create.
    Lexi for Project Evolution



  • @eclark1849 said in Why Are Poser Users Not Supporting Poser Merchants?:

    @willdial Any particular type of situation? Such as party, bar, office, intimate, etc.?

    I prefer more utilitarian type poses or poses where she is interacting with a prop or another person. I already have enough model poses.



  • @adosity said in Why Are Poser Users Not Supporting Poser Merchants?:

    People who want to 'click and render' are not failed developers, or unable to understand the intricacies of the software - they simply have different interests.

    AND are the majority of people who make up the customer base for vendors. Why would any vendor not love them?



  • @willdial Let me scope out some pics and see what I can come up with.