Why Are Poser Users Not Supporting Poser Merchants?


  • Poser Ambassadors

    Allow another, even more "visible" answer.

    Everybody, from West to East, and North to South, (Globally, read that as worldwide) is building and flooding marketplaces AND freebie sites with clothing.
    Vendors must understand by now that trying to "survive" building clothes became wishful thinking some time ago.

    My friend needed to build a garden scene.
    Now, just try to find the "lot" , and I mean "the lot" of garden tools to maintain a garden / forest site.
    We ended up building EVERYTHING ourselves, because there was close to nothing with at least a minimum level of quality available, and the few/little we found had to be adapted anyway. => Faster to re- build from zero.
    Ground, grass, and tree's, some flowers and rocks, yes. All the rest was "home-build".

    There are so many holes in the market left, so much virgin ground left for vendors.
    Another area is construction work tools. Trucks, bulldozers; dozers, cranes, handtools, but yeah, I know, they are not sexy.....

    Also, here an example of a vendor limiting his own sales.

    • Glasses for V8. => Since when did glasses become "figure" dependent?
      Just a stupid example, I know, but there are thousands of those flying around.

  • Poser Ambassadors

    @eclark1849
    Earl, there is no fight going on except that all clothing closets are full. (Overflowing)
    The clothes department is saturated, and everybody with any 3D app, can cut up any existing clothing for re-use on any other figure if required, and even retexture it with Gimp or Krita or whatever.

    • Hair will always sell.
    • Shoes are harder to convert, so shoes are a good thing to sell too.
    • Scenes and houses, and workforce items will always sell. (Limited numbers, but they will sell)
      Remember the Cessna and Piper examples above. If one part of the market gets saturated, move over to the next.


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  • @vilters This is just complete bunk. Not every Poser user wants to convert clothing. Not every Poser user chooses to fight with clothing that doesn't fit the model they are trying to use. Not every Poser user uses V4 exclusively.

    And, most importantly, not every Poser user chooses to deal with modeling, converting and messing around to create a render.


  • Poser Ambassadors

    @vilters said in Why Are Poser Users Not Supporting Poser Merchants?:

    The best reputation vendors don't need galleries or forums and rarely post a render in a gallery or chit-chat around in forum-land. They continue to build and continue to enhance their reputation in the quality of their products.
    They will find the holes in the market automatically, and they will survive.

    Best regards, Tony

    I disagree about that vendors don't need galleries and connect on forums and that sort of thing.
    In my opinion it's important to connect with the community, show interest in others and their art.
    Isn't an open mind what creating is all about afterall, talk to artists inspire and be inspired.



  • I think Evolution disproves Tony's comments completely. If Poser users agreed with Tony Vilters, Evolution would have taken off like a hot potato. Ero provided all the tools to make Tony's philosophy true.

    And, yet, Evolution still hasn't taken the Poser world by storm. One has to wonder why, and it boils down to simple reasoning - the customers discovered they had to pay (gasp!) for her.

    I purchased Evolution. Given how few renders we see of her except from her loyal fan club, I'd have to say I was in the minority.

    0_1542760252185_EvolutionPurchase.jpg


  • Poser Ambassadors

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  • Poser Ambassadors

    @biscuits
    I agree that it is best to talk and have an open mind.
    @Glitterati3D
    Correct that not everybody wants to invest time in converting, but you missed some of the rest of our remarks.

    Your comment about Evolution is valid. She requires work from and is too complicated for the load and render end user.
    She is a good figure, but not for everybody.



  • @vilters said in Why Are Poser Users Not Supporting Poser Merchants?:

    @Glitterati3D
    Your comment about Evolution is valid. She requires work from and is too complicated for the load and render end user.
    She is a good figure, but not for everybody.

    That to me is the only reason she hasn't taken the Poser world by storm. I like her, and I even modeled a nice dress for her which could be worn either during the day, or in the evening, as I had also created 6 textures for it.

    Why hasn't it been presented to the public, even as a freebie? I've only gotten into modeling clothing this past year, as most of my modeling experience is for props and environmental stuff, and I still don't know how to rig. Evolution is just NOT the first character you should be using to learn to rig. True Erogenesis included a lot of goodies to make it easier, but I can't even think about trying to rig for Evolution without prior successful attempts to rig clothing for characters that don't require the amount of work she does.



  • @eclark1849 said in Why Are Poser Users Not Supporting Poser Merchants?:

    Okay, people, let's not turn this into a free for all. My whole point in starting this thread was to list the factors we all believe are causing Poser Customers to not buy from Poser Vendors so we could address those factors preferably to correct or eliminate them.

    One thing I have noted is that there are three sides in this "fight"; VENDORS, BROKERS, and CUSTOMERS, and all three seem to believe the other two are the problem.

    This customer does not view vendors or brokers as problems. Market forces are impersonal. Blue Tree Studio, long a Poser-only vendor, just started releasing DS versions of its products on a brokerage that caters to both platforms. They are following the money, even though Poser users buy their stuff.



  • As a hobbyist, for me it comes down to money, sadly the outlay on Poser, even on an upgrade deal is considerable and it really has to be something I can't live without for me to spend out any of my disposable income on Poser Stuff (as I like to call it), also I have to take into account before parting with money the current exchange rate, [$AUD 1.38 ATM - that extra .38 cents on the dollar makes a big difference!] that can have a big bearing on whether I spend out or not, it is worth noting that not everyone lives in the USA, which when I was a vendor at Rendo, I always took into account exchange rates when setting my prices and tried to come up with a price that would be reasonable across many currencies.



  • @tastiger Actually, I don't have a problem. I don't think I've spent full price on Poser since version 2, my very first. Every other time has been upgrades And even if it had been, we're talking at least two years or more between versions. I've spent more on operating systems and computers.



  • One thing no one has mentioned and that is Why is there so much of the same content being sold and resold? In the US there are about 2,500,000 new adults entering the work force being able to buy there own things having left High School behind. If even 1/10 of 1 percent (2,500) pick up the FREE Daz what do they need? A couple of Pro Packs Vicky whichever number maybe an outfit or two if they really want a dressed dolly and they are set. And next year another 2.5M adults does the same thing. But happens to the first group of 2,500? Does anyone here really think they all stick with 3D? If they do then this the only hobby to have that type of retention rate. I can think of at least 30 hobbies I have done in the past Skiing, Tennis, Bowling etc. that I don't do now and if I did I would borrow the equipment (such as a bowling ball). In most hobbies if 1 percent stick with for more then 5 years that is considered a success.

    So The experts have a stable of products that all they have to do is re work and they are ready for a new group of customers. Also they are open to using the newest features, look at how many products are now using dforce something the vendors here are telling Poser users it is too hard to use and that only conforming clothing sells.



  • @richard60 said in Why Are Poser Users Not Supporting Poser Merchants?:

    So The experts have a stable of products that all they have to do is re work and they are ready for a new group of customers. Also they are open to using the newest features, look at how many products are now using dforce something the vendors here are telling Poser users it is too hard to use and that only conforming clothing sells.

    I have never seen a vendor say dynamic cloth is too hard to use. Customers, yes, vendors no.

    I think vendors would prefer creating dynamic clothing. No rigging, no morphing? HEAVEN for vendors. ROI on an outfit would be greatly improved.

    No, what I see is customers refusing to even TRY dynamic cloth, not the vendors. Again, PE being a perfect example - she has plenty of dynamic cloth, from karanta alone and several others.

    It just slays me that suddenly, DAZ gets credit for FINALLY giving their customers usable dynamic cloth and Poser users suddenly claiming they created the possibility.



  • @robzhena said in Why Are Poser Users Not Supporting Poser Merchants?:

    This customer does not view vendors or brokers as problems. Market forces are impersonal. Blue Tree Studio, long a Poser-only vendor, just started releasing DS versions of its products on a brokerage that caters to both platforms. They are following the money, even though Poser users buy their stuff.

    Any vendor that offers both formats of their products is a star in my book. My issue has been with a lot of long-time Poser vendors who have totally given up by "switching" to DS only. I know it's double the effort, but pricing can be adjusted to accommodate 2 formats rather than 1. OR, they can create two separate products, though I don't know how many brokerages like that, unless of course, like Blue Tree Studio, they're "updating" older Poser only products.

    I'm just greatly disappointed in vendors I've been buying from for years who no longer have anything I want to purchase, even though their new products look great, and would most likely be in my Runtime if they were still creating them for Poser too.



  • @glitterati3d said in Why Are Poser Users Not Supporting Poser Merchants?:

    @richard60 said in Why Are Poser Users Not Supporting Poser Merchants?:

    So The experts have a stable of products that all they have to do is re work and they are ready for a new group of customers. Also they are open to using the newest features, look at how many products are now using dforce something the vendors here are telling Poser users it is too hard to use and that only conforming clothing sells.

    I have never seen a vendor say dynamic cloth is too hard to use. Customers, yes, vendors no.

    I think vendors would prefer creating dynamic clothing. No rigging, no morphing? HEAVEN for vendors. ROI on an outfit would be greatly improved.

    No, what I see is customers refusing to even TRY dynamic cloth, not the vendors. Again, PE being a perfect example - she has plenty of dynamic cloth, from karanta alone and several others.

    It just slays me that suddenly, DAZ gets credit for FINALLY giving their customers usable dynamic cloth and Poser users suddenly claiming they created the possibility.

    Well, that is one reason I did this Poser Render Challenge using the features of Poser. To try and get more people to use the features and to show what kind of Artwork can be done.



  • @miss-b said in Why Are Poser Users Not Supporting Poser Merchants?:

    @robzhena said in Why Are Poser Users Not Supporting Poser Merchants?:

    This customer does not view vendors or brokers as problems. Market forces are impersonal. Blue Tree Studio, long a Poser-only vendor, just started releasing DS versions of its products on a brokerage that caters to both platforms. They are following the money, even though Poser users buy their stuff.

    Any vendor that offers both formats of their products is a star in my book. My issue has been with a lot of long-time Poser vendors who have totally given up by "switching" to DS only. I know it's double the effort, but pricing can be adjusted to accommodate 2 formats rather than 1. OR, they can create two separate products, though I don't know how many brokerages like that, unless of course, like Blue Tree Studio, they're "updating" older Poser only products.

    I'm just greatly disappointed in vendors I've been buying from for years who no longer have anything I want to purchase, even though their new products look great, and would most likely be in my Runtime if they were still creating them for Poser too.

    I think with someone like Stonemason, who, if I can recall what he said about why he was abandoning Poser, I think it was a matter of supporting so many render engines. I can't say I fault him for that. When I was doing Dawn's House, the idea of having to learn 3Delight, and Iray scared the crap out of me.



  • @redphantom said in Why Are Poser Users Not Supporting Poser Merchants?:

    The mega discount sales are what is known as loss leaders. Stores in real life have them. You'll see a lot of them next week called Black Friday sales.

    Stores have them on highly commoditized products and profits happen on volume. That is not what is happening here.

    Poser compatible content is not highly commoditized because even factoring the DAZ user base, the content buying market isn't that big. However DAZ takes a huge slice of each product, and they are participating in every sale - for DAZ, it is a commoditized market, but not for the individual vendor. The business model then works more like discount bin product in which product 'tires' quickly and gets binned quickly, so DAZ loses interest in promoting it and it gets much lower ongoing sales. Again, DAZ makes it on volume, but the individual vendor does not proportionately make it.

    If you want indie vendors to thrive, buy directly from them. You can find almost all Meshbox Content now at Mirye Store, including our Complete Editions. The Complete Editions include seven models we release individually plus a bonus model - collectively together, you pay less per model, and you get one that's not available on any brokerage.

    We are also about to start our Guess Toon Santa 2018 contest as well (put your thinking caps on, time will be short), something we do as individual vendors.

    If you've been using Poser for a long time, take the time to order directly from the vendors. A few of us indie folks are left and fighting the good fight.



  • @eclark1849 I know, are you're killing me since I don't have a Renderosity account and couldn't use the prizes even IF I won.



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